REVIEW: "The Club Battle Finale: A Heroes Outcome!" - Page 3

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  1. #31
    ロケット団よ永遠 Dogasu's Avatar Retired Staff
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    Default Re: "The Club Battle Finale: A Heroes Outcome!"

    I hope everyone paid attention to the Team Rocket scene this time around.

    Seriously. It was really annoying how people ignored it when this episode first aired in Japan and then acted all surprised to learn that Meowth was doing exactly what he said he was doing in this episode when the Battle Subway two-parter comes around. He makes his scheme super obvious here, but people still acted surprised.

    Pay attention this time around, please.
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  2. #32
    Registered User Trainer Gabriel's Avatar
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    Default Re: "The Club Battle Finale: A Heroes Outcome!"

    Granted, Ash winning the tournament would have been a tad too predictable, but he still deserved to win it more than anyone else -and certainly more than Iris.

    Ah yes, May's infamous Squirtle. Now there's a Pokemon who magically pulled a powerful move at a convenient time to escape a dangerous situation-Ice Beam to escape a Spider Web and freeze Ariados. And yet, look at how much hate that little guy got during its run. What makes Axew any different?
    Last edited by Trainer Gabriel; 19th November 2011 at 09:04 PM.
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  3. #33
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    Default Re: "The Club Battle Finale: A Heroes Outcome!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer_Gabriel View Post
    You can look at it that way, but then we might as well drop all the ongoing debate topics and just blame the writers for everything we dislike, shouldn't we?
    I just don't feel it's right to place the blame on characters whose actions are controlled by real people. As Tsutaja said, you guys tend to treat characters like real people and it feels a bit weird to me. Not that debating is bad...

    - Bad gags? Didn't really mind those, unlike most. A minor nuisance, anyway.
    - Rushed battles? Not the first time we've had those, and the writers can only do so much in four episodes. Extending the tourney isn't a necessary option either.
    - Time constraints? See above.
    Well, it is pretty subjective so I won't argue on that. But I still wish it was more than just 4 episodes. Like the writers really took their time to set things up and plan things out instead of taking the easy ways out, making this 10 episodes or more.

    - Character development? I'll give you that one, but the one character who needed that more than anyone else was... Iris (which actually furthers my point than anything else). Instead of spending all of her time outside of battles bickering with Georgia -which by itself is still a good thing to build her chemistry with her rival- why not take some time here to develop her character to make up for the lack of it up to this point?

    All of those points pale in comparison to Iris winning a whole tournament when she did nothing to deserve it. She had no on-screen training (aside from training Axew with Scraggy, which is done more for comic relief than anything else and not enough to earn Axew any legit wins) and had an Emolga that did whatever she wanted until she just decided to listen to Iris just because it was a convenient time for Iris. There was zero foreshadowing or development leading up to this victory. So why go that route?
    Okay, I agree. They really should've took the time to develop Iris as well as Ash and Cilan (and perhaps Trip and the others) but, then again, this is the Pokemon Anime and Best Wishes at that. Real character development and good storytelling is scarce these days so this arc was no different.

    Because unlike other Pokemon when they pulled new moves from nowhere, they didn't just get an insta-win; they still had to fight their way to victory. When Squirtle learned Hydro Pump, when Noctowl learned Confusion, or when Buizel learned Water Pulse, they didn't just plow through their opponents until they were KO'ed, they still had to put in some effort to win. With Axew, as soon as he learned Outrage, he just effortlessly pummels Golett with no struggle and without Iris giving the command, as I already mentioned. Another reason why that was an undeserving win: Iris did not actually win that battle; Axew, and Axew alone, did that. Instead, Iris just stands there watching Axew pound Golett while commenting on what he's doing without doing her job as Axew's trainer.
    You have a point buuuuutttt Outrage seems to be a powerful move and Axew seemed to have been out of control.

    Also as I already mentioned (how much of my post did you actually read?), the real issue is how Axew was able to effortlessly learn one of the most powerful Dragon-type moves -and at the most convenient time, no less- when it took a lot of time and effort just trying to perfect Dragon Rage. Not to mention Axew winning his first real battle and has never been shown to be very good at battles at all in the first place. Too good to be true, if you ask me.
    You're right and the writers really could've made the battle better. You also could apply that statement to the whole saga.

  4. #34
    Registered User Paulisthebest's Avatar
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    Default Re: "The Club Battle Finale: A Heroes Outcome!"

    Well, I’m not going to lie up front I’m one of those users (that saw when this episode came out in Japan) who talked about how Iris was like that spoiled little brother or sister that gets their way no matter what, and that was what it was in this tournament for Iris; Emolga obeyed her without question, Axew learns one of the most powerful Dragon-type moves and wins its first official battle against a trained Pokemon (aside from those practice ones with Scraggy) and Excadrill wins the tournament for her sort of like when they won in that tournament in the Village of Dragons in the past.

    The one thing that got me to thinking about how Pikachu vs. Excadrill was a good match is this; how many times in the past against a Ground-type did Pikachu actually put up a descent fight?

    Think about it Pikachu with only Iron Tail and Quick Attack to actually do damage (very little if any damage that is) got creamed and quickly by Katie’s Dugtrio, Jasmine’s Steelix, Morrison’s Steelix and others (let’s not include battles where Electric moves magically did damage to Ground-types). It got knocked out quickly but here I guess it lasted longer for the sake of the final battle not ending in less than a minute.

    Scratch on a Ghost-type? Oh Iris, you are such a kid!

  5. #35
    never ever giving up J J M's Avatar
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    Default Re: "The Club Battle Finale: A Heroes Outcome!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cutemon View Post
    I noticed that the whole arc's worth is inversely proportional to Jimmy Ray's screentime: the less he appears, the crappier the Club Battle episode will be, kyu. Just imagine the awesomeness it would be if Jimmy Ray was in the finals instead of Ash or Iris.

    All-in-all, this arc wasn't that bad, kyu. It had flaws, but it wasn't the worst thing ever. (Don't.) Here's hoping we get another, less clusterfucky Club Battle tournament in the future, kyu.
    You mean directly proportional. *shot*
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  6. #36
    Moe
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    Default Re: "The Club Battle Finale: A Heroes Outcome!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulisthebest View Post
    Scratch on a Ghost-type? Oh Iris, you are such a kid!
    This.

    While there's other flaws here, my main complaint is that there is no reason that justifies Ash, knowing all the Pokemon Iris has, to not have picked Palpitoad? For Pikachu - Excadrill is resistant against all of the moves it can do, for Axew the best is doing normal damage, for Emolga it has one resistance and no super effectives. Except for Excadrill, Snivy is about the same; but Palpitoad has two super effective types over Excadrill and at least equal to Snivy/Pikachu on the others (especially as Emolga doesn't know any flying type moves). It's not like he was battling someone who could surprise him with a different Pokemon. The only way Ash could have chosen worse than Pikachu would have been Roggenrola. I'm surprised Ash didn't just yell out 'aim for the horn'.

    That said, both battles were at least entertaining, regardless of the other issues, Axew vs Gollet was hilarious. I'm okay with Axew learning a new move there, extreme pressure is a case where people can do things they didn't think they could, I think it's fine that the same happens with learning a new move. I also thought the Cilan/Burgundy thing was well handled. Bianca was annoying again, but didn't take up too much screen time. Pikachu spinning was good though, a slight glimmer of hope Ash will start battling like he used to, even if it wasn't a true counter shield.
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  7. #37
    Noble shine! Likeitornot.'s Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: "The Club Battle Finale: A Heroes Outcome!"

    I will talk about other elements in this episode before I discuss the topic of to Iris' battles:
    - Although we all knew the CoTD Dino would lose to Ash, rthat was a non-brainer, as the last CoTD in the whole Tournament, he shouldv'e had a bit more to say. Or a better character. Or transform into Watchog Man.
    - "Homestretch"? Is that some American phrase? Because I've never heard that being said over here...
    - I loved the scenes with TR. They were very suave, and sinister.
    - Poor Luke. He should know better than to entrust his camera and sound equipment to Bianca. However, I did love when Bianca riled him up about not being a proper Film Director if he would allow to be restricted. It was a slight Zorua free moment, and it was cute.
    - Oh, Cilan and Burgundy. I remember watching this back in August and I did dearly hope that they would keep in their scenes in the Dub. They were so cute! I love how Cilan asks her to join them for Dinner, but I wished her stomach would've grumbled when she told them that she already had a fabulous dinner.
    However, the Sommelier showdown! Or the Connoisseur Battle, as you like. Their TR-eqsue Tasting motto won my adoration, and this time around, it was no different.
    Still, I think that Cilan's phrases are more eloquent in the original. I could be wrong, though. I love Burgundy's little confession to herself that Cilan really is. It's one step closer to love a beautiful rivalry, and they're very compatible. Also, Cilan talks in French to her, how cute.

    Right... moving on to the battles...
    - I love how Golett itches himself lazily after Axew uses Scratch with no effect. That is hilarious.
    - As soon as the dramatic music comes on with Golett's Gyro Ball, one would think that Golett was going to win, even Cilan knows that Kibago's moveset hasn't a chance. Especially when Kibago used "the flee from the Golett" tactic. If Golett wasn't so slow, he would've crushed him in that scene. And if Kibbago didn't suddenly learn a new move, gee thanks, Writers. However, I'm glad they displayed that Outrage causes confusion from fatigue.
    - Exadrill is a formidable opponent, and it was clear that he would win. Still, it was nice to see that Pikachu kept in there.
    - I wished she didn't mail those "beautiful seven top-class driftveil wing-set" to her home. It would have been interesting if the Anime showed their uses, and it would also show that Iris is a dedicated trainer somewhat at least, by curiousity to the wing-set's Powers for her Pokemon.

    Really, the only aspect that made this episode enjoyable for me was Cilan and Burgundy. I nearly didn't care who won, due to them.
    Last edited by Likeitornot.; 20th November 2011 at 12:26 PM.
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  8. #38
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    Default Re: "The Club Battle Finale: A Heroes Outcome!"

    Thank god! That onslaught of poorly dubbed rival character quirks which almost made me pine for the days of rhyming, alliterative Team Rocket is finally over! I don't know if he's entirely to blame - but Tom Wayland's ADR direction for characters that have an unusual manner of speaking, catchphrases or running gags sounds so forced, and it really shows in this arc where every quirky character introduced over the last 8 months comes together. Burgundy's French, Stephan's "SAY MY NAME RIGHT", Georgia's vendetta against Iris - the delivery all sounded so rigid. At least it's back to just Cilan's awkward insertion of food references into everything next week. (and maybe DP Meowth *shudder*)

    Anyway, that's all over for now, and so is the Club Battle tournament. I don't think it's so wrong for Iris to have won - Excadrill has been shown to be a fairly powerful Pokemon, and regardless of how amazing Pikachu's meant to be - all of its attacks were resisted to some degree by Excadrill. Besides, Ash winning a filler arc tournament doesn't really add anything to his character, he's won plenty of stuff like this before. Iris needed it more to further establish that she's actually a competent battler.

    Axew going batshit psycho on Golett was pretty cool, too.

  9. #39
    Because I can. Caseydia's Avatar
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    Default Re: "The Club Battle Finale: A Heroes Outcome!"

    If they do another mini tournament, I hope the scrip won't be as bad as this again. This is the worst since the bug catching contest.

  10. #40
    Don
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    Default Re: "The Club Battle Finale: A Heroes Outcome!"

    What a magnificent battle, it was fabulous and had lots of flare. It was truly the battle of the tournament.....

    Seriously the Cilan vs Burgundy Pokémon Connoisseur battle was amazing, I look forward to their next round.














    Oh and Ash vs Iris was cool as well. I liked the nod to Sinnoh with Pikachu's spinning Iron Tail. And well done to Iris, she has come a long way from earlier in the series.

    Yeah I can see why people had a problem with Axew suddenly learning Outrage out of the blue and her Emolga suddenly obeying Iris without question. But other than that, Iris's battling problems stopped from the moment Axew finally mastered Dragon Rage and Exacadrill finally opened up to her. By the way I completely forgot about Axew learning Outrage until I saw it mentioned somewhere because it's been a while (in the upcoming episodes) since he used it again. Iris and Excadrill both put up a good fight, as did Ash and Pikachu, I would have been happy if either Ash or Iris won and I would have even been so if it was a tie. I thought Iris's battle in the final round made up for that one particular problem which bothered most problem in the semi-round battle between her and Luke.

    While the battles weren't anything special or magnificent, I did enjoy the interactions between the characters. In fact I swear this tournament was more focused on the character interactions than the actual battles. It's a shame Trip missed out on it all, but he isn't the kind of person who would be easy to interact with, plus the writers want to develop Trip's character slowly due to him being Ash's main rival. Also I never got tired of the gags in this arc as I don't look too much into what I watch. Plus the name gimmick for Stephan didn't really have the same entertaining value as it did with Butch and Dr. Namba (maybe it's how he reacts towards it?). By doing that I find it's much easier to enjoy the show. I always except what the writers do as I know I have no way of changing it even if something did bother me.

    Burgundy now understands Cilan being an A-Class Pokémon Connoisseur actually means something. The Pokémon Connoisseur battle is the first time Burgundy experienced Cilan's evaluating close hand, when previously she hated him so much that in her mind she was always convinced he sucked at evaluating- yelling in rage and making lots of snide comments. Despite the fact that she paid the most attention to it as was seen in last week's episode. And now Burgundy finally sees Cilan's evaluating is indeed suited for an A-Class Connoisseur and she realizes his evaluating tops hers. Now both Cilan and Burgundy are on friendly terms with each other and the shippers couldn't be happier.
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  11. #41
    smile Enzap's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: "The Club Battle Finale: A Heroes Outcome!"

    Did anyone else find it a little strange and funny that Cilan started speaking in French when Burgundy was around?

    Guess he doesn't want to be outdone.

  12. #42
    What's this? Bouffalant Herdier's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: "The Club Battle Finale: A Heroes Outcome!"

    It's a good thing I've known about the result of this tournament for ages and had a long time to prepare myself. I would have been furious had I watched the Japanese episode when it aired. In any case, I may have a new least favourite episode ever.

    "A hero's outcome"? Then how come Iris feels like my worst enemy? WHY, of all people, did she have to win? Whilst I admit that I hate her and am likely strongly biased against her, surely her attitude during the previous 40 or so episodes was practically screaming for a Break The Haughty moment? If she got knocked out in the first round, that could have been the turning point, when she begins to become more humble and likable, but that would make too much sense. So instead, out of nowhere, Axew learns THE most powerful attack available to its line, after all that time it took to learn Dragon Rage? Did the dragon elder breed Axew to know the attack, which he didn't realize he knew until now? So, Axew's current moves are: Scratch, Dragon Rage, Outrage. Uneven, to say the least.

    And of course, there's her final battle with Ash. This would have been the one time I'd been fine if Pikachu broke the laws of physics and won, despite a severe type disadvantage. This could've also been the perfect way for Ash to finally prove to Iris who the little kid is, but I guess character development is a crime these days. It's bad enough the writers decided Ash had to lose once more, but to Iris, of all the choices... are they trying to piss me off?

    The stuff breaking up the action wasn't much better. Why is Bianca being such a bitch to Luke? It might not be fair, but I'm going to blame the writing for her strange personality during this arc, and not Bianca herself. At least she's given me joy in the past, unlike Iris.

    Thank Arceus the arc is over, but even though it was only a small tournament, I worry the outcome has forever destroyed any enjoyment I can get out of the series.
    Last edited by Bouffalant Herdier; 20th November 2011 at 08:49 PM.

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  13. #43
    MEGA F'ING AMPHAROS!!! Ampharos King's Avatar
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    Default Re: "The Club Battle Finale: A Heroes Outcome!"

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    While Iris's win may have seem "cheap" to some, I still liked the battle and you have to remember that Pikachu was reset by the writers whether you like it or not. Plus, Iris did train hard with Drilbur/Excadrill before the series AND Ground-types have the advantage over Electric-types.
    Pikachu is also not the most sturdy pokemon in the world. As powerful as Pikachu is when he is using Iron Tail, he is still a small pokemon and could not compete with a larger pokemon using a fast move like Drill Run. Pikachu has been knocked out from a Focus Blast after only being sent backwards by his collision with Excadrill. Focus Blast was also move that Excadrill had only learned recently.

    I hope that people realize that Pikachu has lost a lot of pokemon battles against more powerful or pokemon with type advantages before, usually under two or three hits. For those who claimed that Pikachu's power had been "reset" since his Sinnoh days, Pikachu still struggled to battle against Paul's Electivire in the Sinnoh League. Aside from the fact that Pikachu had a move disadvantage against Electivire, Pikachu lost because his Iron Tail attack was overpowered by his larger counterpart's Thunderpunch. The same could very well be said about Pikachu's battle against Volkner's Luxray where a similar situation had led to Pikachu's defeat.

    Going back as far as the Hoenn League, Pikachu was paired up with a trainer's Dugtrio in which he was also unable to hurt it with his Electric-type attacks. Pikachu was unable to do anything to escape the pokemon's Sand Tomb and it barely inflicted any damage in that fight. At least Ash and Pikachu were able to improvise here with the very few moves that they were not restricted with.

    It's not that Pikachu's power has been reset. It's simply that the writers have given Pikachu a few moments, such as his battles with Regice and Latios, where the pokemon unjustfully won against a more powerful or skilled pokemon due to persistence and persistence alone. Pikachu simply has all of the restrictions of an unevolved Electric-type pokemon, and no matter how much training he does or how powerful he is, he does not stand a chance against certain types of opponents. Pikachu was knocked out in all of the Johto and Hoenn gym battles that he had participated in and lost at least twice in both of the regional competitions. Pikachu was in a similar situation with the Sinnoh gym battles he participated in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enzap View Post
    Did anyone else find it a little strange and funny that Cilan started speaking in French when Burgundy was around?

    Guess he doesn't want to be outdone.
    The Pokemon Connoisseur profession is French-themed in of itself. Cilan has spoken French a few times without being around Burgundy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zidane View Post
    "I guess this proves I've been training hard", or something to that effect. It was "These are the fruits of my hard training" in the subbed version.
    To be fair, Iris did train with Excadrill in her youth. Iris and Excadrill spent one night trying to perfect Excadrill's Focus Blast attack, which was the move he used to defeat Pikachu. Iris's Axew spent a few episodes to master his Dragon Rage attack, while a move that may not have done much against Luke's Golett, was still an attack that she had in her back pocket.

    Iris was training hard, but circumstances were indeed in her favor. Iris did a lot more on-screen training with the pokemon she had on her at the time than Cilan ever did with any of his. Iris's pokemon are all powerful in their own way, but their on-screen development had clearly fallen short. Emolga is a pokemon that is just as powerful as Ash's Snivy and has access to a bold array of attacks. If we had an additional episode where Emolga went from refusing to obey Iris to affectionally warming up to her, we could have seen the additional measures that Iris would have taken to work alongside the pokemon.

    Of course, considering that Cilan's Dwebble and Stunfisk learned Rock Slide and Scald off-screen, I guess the writers wanted to resolve the Emolga issue off-screen as well.

    Axew learning Outrage is a completely different matter. The attack was triggered during a moment when Axew was literally exhausted and in danger; two conditions that had rarely been met for the pokemon thus far. This was something that Iris had very little control over so some people might very well call this a foul. I wouldn't argue with you there. Unless Axew's Outrage is covered in a future episode, I believe that this was simply a cheap and ridiculous victory in the same respect that Pikachu won over a Regice with just one Volt Tackle.
    Last edited by Ampharos King; 20th November 2011 at 11:34 AM.

  14. #44
    You think you're bad, don't ya? Karamazov's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: "The Club Battle Finale: A Heroes Outcome!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Enzap View Post
    Did anyone else find it a little strange and funny that Cilan started speaking in French when Burgundy was around?
    Because French is the language of love, kyu.

    And we'll neeeeeeeeeeeeever see those feathers again.

    "Playing around?" Wrong.

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    Default Re: "The Club Battle Finale: A Heroes Outcome!"

    It's times like these I wonder what the hell is wrong with the writers, especially for this series. I also wonder why we even bother to continue watching this shlock at this point.

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