REVIEW: BW116: "Burn, Lizardon! VS Kairyu!" - Page 12

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Thread: BW116: "Burn, Lizardon! VS Kairyu!"

  1. #166
    本物の神様 FANG-TAN's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW116: "Burn, Lizardon! VS Kairyu!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyvernphlare View Post

    I am the 1%? Naw she should know that having a fire/dragon as starter would mess with triangle (unless she though it gains dragon type). And the triangle thing seems like it would be common knowledge in the pokemon world since all known regions operate that way. Anyways they could've given him Shadow claw and Air slash instead of Slash and wing attack if they must have dragon tail
    Quote Originally Posted by Sakuraa View Post
    I loved this episode and all the nostalgia. I esspecially loved seeing Misty again. Though I wish we would have seen more of her. It seemed like Brock got more dialouge then her.

    However, Iris's justifications for believing Charizard was a dragon-type seem pretty unreasonable. It's a starter, and since she knows it's not the grass or water-types, it therefore has to be at least part fire-type. Second, it has the ability to fly and IMO, adding a dragon typing wouldn't grant the ability to fly. Her claim that Charizard looks like a dragon-type doesn't make much since to me since all of them look different. The fact that he knew a dragon-type move is even more ridiculous. Did she not remember seeing Trip's grass-type Serperior with Dragon Tail or Ash's ground/dark-type Krookodile learning Dragon Claw.

    Anyway, besides that, this was one of the best episodes in BW. 8/10.
    I don't see how it messes with the triangle when Fushigidane is part Poison... The problem would be if she didn't think it was part Fire to begin with. And logically I'd assume she was surprised that it was Fire/Flying rather than Fire/Dragon.

    Since there's no subtitles available yet, I feel that there are some clarifications to be made. Iris referred to Lizardon as a Dragon type Pokemon. Satoshi corrected Iris by saying 「リザードンはドラゴンタイプじゃないよ。」 (Rizaadon wa doragon taipu ja nai yo, Lizardon is not a Dragon Type). The PokeZukan said that Lizardon was 「ほのおタイプとひこうタイプ」 (honoo taipu to hikou taipu, Fire type and Flying Type), thus there's no reason to believe that Iris thought it was Dragon/Flying (or pure Dragon) rather than Fire/Dragon. There have been cases in the anime where characters don't address dual-type Pokemon as both of their types (Isitsubute being referred to as Rock by Takeshi instead of Rock/Ground, for example), she probably took Fire into consideration, but stressed the Dragon type part because she's crazy about dragons. And assuming Iris isn't stupid at making educated guesses, it probably was the case. That, and seeing as how "dragons" in Pokemon seem take every possible dragon trope and appearance into account (western, eastern, serpentine, dinosaurs = dragons, etc.), Iris seeing a foreign dragon-like Pokemon using Dragon type moves and assuming it's part Dragon isn't too stupid of a situation, especially when it isn't native to the region.

    That being said, I'd love to see Iris's reaction to Gyarados being a Water/Flying type, with no good explanation from the PokeZukan other than it being based on an Eastern Dragon (which would break the fourth wall of the show, more than Koiking's official classification as a "Fish Pokemon").
    Last edited by FANG-TAN; 7th April 2013 at 06:53 AM.
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  2. #167
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    Default Re: BW116: "Burn, Lizardon! VS Kairyu!"

    Quote Originally Posted by FANG-TAN View Post
    I don't see how it messes with the triangle when Fushigidane is part Poison...
    WHAT THE FLYING FUCK DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING. The problem isn't the idea of charmander having a second type it's that Dragon is resistant to water and grass. See messes with the triangle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkara
    Gary reveals that he already has six pokemon. And judging by the pokemon around that area I'm guessing he has a rat a bird two bugs AND anouther bird

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    Electrifyingly Adorable Sakuraa's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW116: "Burn, Lizardon! VS Kairyu!"

    Quote Originally Posted by FANG-TAN View Post
    I don't see how it messes with the triangle when Fushigidane is part Poison... The problem would be if she didn't think it was part Fire to begin with. And logically I'd assume she was surprised that it was Fire/Flying rather than Fire/Dragon.

    Since there's no subtitles available yet, I feel that there are some clarifications to be made. Iris referred to Lizardon as a Dragon type Pokemon. Satoshi corrected Iris by saying 「リザードンはドラゴンタイプじゃないよ。」 (Rizaadon wa doragon taipu ja nai yo, Lizardon is not a Dragon Type). The PokeZukan said that Lizardon was 「ほのおタイプとひこうタイプ」 (honoo taipu to hikou taipu, Fire type and Flying Type), thus there's no reason to believe that Iris thought it was Dragon/Flying (or pure Dragon) rather than Fire/Dragon. There have been cases in the anime where characters don't address dual-type Pokemon as both of their types (Isitsubute being referred to as Rock by Takeshi instead of Rock/Ground, for example), she probably took Fire into consideration, but stressed the Dragon type part because she's crazy about dragons. And assuming Iris isn't stupid at making educated guesses, it probably was the case. That, and seeing as how "dragons" in Pokemon seem take every possible dragon trope and appearance into account (western, eastern, serpentine, dinosaurs = dragons, etc.), Iris seeing a foreign dragon-like Pokemon using Dragon type moves and assuming it's part Dragon isn't too stupid of a situation, especially when it isn't native to the region.

    That being said, I'd love to see Iris's reaction to Gyarados being a Water/Flying type, with no good explanation from the PokeZukan other than it being based on an Eastern Dragon (which would break the fourth wall of the show, more than Koiking's official classification as a "Fish Pokemon").
    Still, like I said previously, Charizard had the ability to fly and therefore it should have been more likely to be a Flying-type rather than a dragon-type. It even used Wing Attack which can only be used by flying-types, while several Pokemon that aren't dragon-types can learn dragon-type moves.

  4. #169
    本物の神様 FANG-TAN's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW116: "Burn, Lizardon! VS Kairyu!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyvernphlare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FANG-TAN View Post
    I don't see how it messes with the triangle when Fushigidane is part Poison...
    WHAT THE FLYING FUCK DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING. The problem isn't the idea of charmander having a second type it's that Dragon is resistant to water and grass. See messes with the triangle.
    Ah, I misunderstood that, other people were going on about how she didn't know it was a "Fire" type. Makes sense then.

    Still, like I said previously, Charizard had the ability to fly and therefore it should have been more likely to be a Flying-type rather than a dragon-type. It even used Wing Attack which can only be used by flying-types, while several Pokemon that aren't dragon-types can learn dragon-type moves.
    Then again, Ghost types in the anime are shown to be able to levitate to an extent where they might as well be flying. Shouldn't be too much of a stretch, at least in the anime, for people to assume some Dragons are able to fly without being classified as a Flying, as opposed to Flying types (Gyarados) who can't. :P Though yes, this shows that Iris needs to hone her knowledge a little more before calling Satoshi a kid.
    Last edited by FANG-TAN; 7th April 2013 at 03:38 PM.

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    Default Re: BW116: "Burn, Lizardon! VS Kairyu!"

    I would've HATED it if they used the old episodes for the flashbacks. The old animation looks like pure garbage compared to the new stuff and would've looked out of place. I just wish the coloring errors weren't there in the new flashbacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    They usually do reunite Ash's Kanto starters which is why it surprises me that an ep that was perfect for it didn't happen. They'll never do something like this for Ash's other teams (just look at how his Johto team remains ignored and forgotten) but the Kanto one usually gets special treatment.

    My only hope is that Charizard's return signals more of Ash's old pokemon like Gible returning.
    Except for the fact that Charizard and Bulbasaur have both come back without any of the others several times and the Johto starters were all reunited in DP182. Yep, keep up your fail logic.
    Last edited by Karamazov; 10th April 2013 at 06:59 PM.

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    Default Re: BW116: "Burn, Lizardon! VS Kairyu!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Charmander4 View Post
    The old animation looks like pure garbage compared to the new stuff and would've looked out of place. I just wish the coloring errors weren't there in the new flashbacks.
    The old animation was fine, especially without the bad CGI. Using them as flashbacks just wouldn't have fit with the new style.

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    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW116: "Burn, Lizardon! VS Kairyu!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Charmander4 View Post

    Except for the fact that Charizard and Bulbasaur have both come back without any of the others several times and the Johto starters were all reunited in DP182. Yep, keep up your fail logic.
    Briefly, and the Johto starters did nothing upon their return.

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    Default Re: BW116: "Burn, Lizardon! VS Kairyu!"

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Charmander4 View Post

    Except for the fact that Charizard and Bulbasaur have both come back without any of the others several times and the Johto starters were all reunited in DP182. Yep, keep up your fail logic.
    Briefly, and the Johto starters did nothing upon their return.
    Charizard returned for the Dragon's Den episodes and the Blackthorn Gym battle, and also was never seen interacting with Bulbasaur and Squirtle during the Johto league.

    Quilava had its own battle in the Sinnoh league. How is that nothing?

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    Default Re: BW116: "Burn, Lizardon! VS Kairyu!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakuraa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FANG-TAN View Post
    I don't see how it messes with the triangle when Fushigidane is part Poison... The problem would be if she didn't think it was part Fire to begin with. And logically I'd assume she was surprised that it was Fire/Flying rather than Fire/Dragon.

    Since there's no subtitles available yet, I feel that there are some clarifications to be made. Iris referred to Lizardon as a Dragon type Pokemon. Satoshi corrected Iris by saying 「リザードンはドラゴンタイプじゃないよ。」 (Rizaadon wa doragon taipu ja nai yo, Lizardon is not a Dragon Type). The PokeZukan said that Lizardon was 「ほのおタイプとひこうタイプ」 (honoo taipu to hikou taipu, Fire type and Flying Type), thus there's no reason to believe that Iris thought it was Dragon/Flying (or pure Dragon) rather than Fire/Dragon. There have been cases in the anime where characters don't address dual-type Pokemon as both of their types (Isitsubute being referred to as Rock by Takeshi instead of Rock/Ground, for example), she probably took Fire into consideration, but stressed the Dragon type part because she's crazy about dragons. And assuming Iris isn't stupid at making educated guesses, it probably was the case. That, and seeing as how "dragons" in Pokemon seem take every possible dragon trope and appearance into account (western, eastern, serpentine, dinosaurs = dragons, etc.), Iris seeing a foreign dragon-like Pokemon using Dragon type moves and assuming it's part Dragon isn't too stupid of a situation, especially when it isn't native to the region.

    That being said, I'd love to see Iris's reaction to Gyarados being a Water/Flying type, with no good explanation from the PokeZukan other than it being based on an Eastern Dragon (which would break the fourth wall of the show, more than Koiking's official classification as a "Fish Pokemon").
    Still, like I said previously, Charizard had the ability to fly and therefore it should have been more likely to be a Flying-type rather than a dragon-type. It even used Wing Attack which can only be used by flying-types, while several Pokemon that aren't dragon-types can learn dragon-type moves.
    Charizard's overall features overlap with Dragonite. I know their designs are drastically different, but look closely, and see how they share some characteristics. Dragonite and Charizard both look like large reptiles with dragon-ish wings, and Charizard looks more reptile-ish anyways. Their looks probably caused the confusion as well.

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    Default Re: BW116: "Burn, Lizardon! VS Kairyu!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrum Achromatic View Post
    Charizard's overall features overlap with Dragonite. I know their designs are drastically different, but look closely, and see how they share some characteristics. Dragonite and Charizard both look like large reptiles with dragon-ish wings, and Charizard looks more reptile-ish anyways. Their looks probably caused the confusion as well.
    The looks shouldn't really be an issue since, like I said, all dragon-types look different. Charizard's being a fully evolved starter and its knowledge of Wing Attack should have been a good enough indicator that it couldn't be anything other than a Fire/Flying-type.

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    本物の神様 FANG-TAN's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW116: "Burn, Lizardon! VS Kairyu!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakuraa View Post
    The looks shouldn't really be an issue since, like I said, all dragon-types look different.
    Thing is, even though they all look different, they're still all draconic. They look like different kinds of dragons, but they still look like dragons in the end. I still think it would be an easy mistake to make if a Pokemon appears to look like a certain variation of dragon, or at least a wyvern or dinosaur. Visually, at least.

    As for the Wing Attack thing, I doubt Iris keeps track of type-exclusive moves (and there's no telling that the exclusivity will change in the future). In general, it has wings, and she probably assumed it wasn't all that weird for a Dragon type to use a move called "Wing" Attack if it has wings. Not a great guess, but I wouldn't expect her answer to be as educated as someone who has metagame knowledge. I assume the anime world treats the intake of Pokemon facts the same as remembering every facet of zoology, and considering she's ten, well. There's also the fact that the anime has showcased Pokemon being able to use moves they aren't supposed to, either intentionally or accidentally.

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    Default Re: BW116: "Burn, Lizardon! VS Kairyu!"

    Quote Originally Posted by FANG-TAN View Post
    Thing is, even though they all look different, they're still all draconic. They look like different kinds of dragons, but they still look like dragons in the end. I still think it would be an easy mistake to make if a Pokemon appears to look like a certain variation of dragon, or at least a wyvern or dinosaur. Visually, at least.

    As for the Wing Attack thing, I doubt Iris keeps track of type-exclusive moves (and there's no telling that the exclusivity will change in the future). In general, it has wings, and she probably assumed it wasn't all that weird for a Dragon type to use a move called "Wing" Attack if it has wings. Not a great guess, but I wouldn't expect her answer to be as educated as someone who has metagame knowledge. I assume the anime world treats the intake of Pokemon facts the same as remembering every facet of zoology, and considering she's ten, well. There's also the fact that the anime has showcased Pokemon being able to use moves they aren't supposed to, either intentionally or accidentally.
    There are also dragon-types who don't look like dragons at all; Altaria and Flygon come to mind immediately. Furthermore, speaking in the present, only Flying-types can learn Wing Attack and whether or not Iris has knowledge of every Pokemon's movesets, I don't see how she couldn't think Charizard had the possiblity of being a flying-type. Also not sure when Iris's age was confirmed to be ten.

    Either way, we'll just have to agree to disagree because there's no way I'll ever beileve that Iris could have thought of Charizard being dragon-type over a flying-type.

  13. #178
    本物の神様 FANG-TAN's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW116: "Burn, Lizardon! VS Kairyu!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakuraa View Post
    There are also dragon-types who don't look like dragons at all; Altaria and Flygon come to mind immediately. Furthermore, speaking in the present, only Flying-types can learn Wing Attack and whether or not Iris has knowledge of every Pokemon's movesets, I don't see how she couldn't think Charizard had the possiblity of being a flying-type. Also not sure when Iris's age was confirmed to be ten.
    What I was getting at was that Iris probably didn't know Wing Attack was exclusive to Flying Types and thought it was possible simply because Lizardon had wings, or otherwise she would of, as you said, made the distinct that it had to be a Flying Type.

    Good point with Tyltalis and Flygon though. One is based on a separate mythical Chinese creature, while one is based on a dragonfly (which clearly aren't dragons). Still, I don't think it's too crazy for her to assume simply because it appeared draconic. But we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

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