REVIEW: BW 096 "Meloetta and the Undersea Temple!" - Page 5
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Thread: BW 096 "Meloetta and the Undersea Temple!"

  1. #61
    Justice HumanDawn's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 096 "Meloetta and the Undersea Temple!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Queen Cynthia View Post
    And, well, I just can't help but ask the Alder fans a simple questions once again: So far the Pokemon world had to be saved twice. Each time Cynthia was or will be there. In "The Battle Finale of Legend" she freed all the others and, as a consequence, protected the whole Pokemon world. This time it looks like her role in saving the world will once again be a significant one. Again, every time the world is in danger, Cynthia was or will be there to save the day.
    Cynthia didn't show up to save the world when she could in most of the movies and in the Team Aqua and Team Magma arc. Lance did in that arc. She didn't exist at that time, but that still means that she didn't show up every time the world was going to end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Queen Cynthia View Post
    Sooo, the big question is: Where is Alder? :P
    Probably preparing for the League coming ahead. If somebody had his phone number, I'm sure that they would have called him and he'd gladly come to help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Queen Cynthia View Post
    The writers chose Cynthia and they did it with a certain intention. To me it's crystal clear now that they want to make Cynthia appear superior to all the other champions.
    (The fact alone that she's organizing another big event in a foreign region where she doesn't originally belong to speaks for itself)
    Taking part in getting rid of two big evil teams where the leader is trying to attain the powers of a god doesn't really mean much for superiority. Actually, you could say the same to Lance, only he helped take out two big evil teams in one day, while Cynthia took a long time to get rid of Team Galactic and got deceived by Cyrus. So using the logic you've just used here, it means that Lance is the best Champion, not Cynthia. Oh and he helped stop Team Rocket from getting the shiny Gyarados. We didn't really see Cynthia actually helping the people around there. She probably pointed out the obvious and told the men around her to set stuff up. They were the people carrying the boxes to set the stuff up, not her.


    Quote Originally Posted by Queen Cynthia View Post
    One point of criticism though: Was that "crucifixion" scene really necessary? I know many Japanese are not particularly religious but that was really very very close to blasphemy and could easily hurt lots of people's religious feelings around the globe, including mine. I just hope PUSA will edit said scene because this is actually the first time that they've had a good and justified reason to edit something.
    The Christian cross isn't the only cross in the world. Meoletta didn't even die. She's apparently being controlled.
    Last edited by HumanDawn; 28th September 2012 at 04:15 AM.

  2. #62
    Registered User Paulisthebest's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 096 "Meloetta and the Undersea Temple!"

    Great episode but it left me disappointed in some parts. I mean I can't say how things are different since that 2-parter from earlier in the series was cancelled like we don't know if Ash actually got to meet Giovanni face to face or if they even met at all.

    Speaking as someone that watched the series since day 1, if this truly was their first face to face meeting (unless you count the one in Mewtwo Returns and even then it wasn't on a name basis or anything) it was kind of a letdown.

    Seriously, this is the Pikachu that TR has been chasing since episode 2 and it gets beat in one attack. Persian isn't a pushover I'm sure since it is Giovanni's Pokemon which explains why its strong and well-trained. As someone mentioned before, it was a let down seeing that it only used moves released 3 generations since Kanto. Power Gem (looked a lot like Hyper Beam to me...) and Shadow Claw.

    Gosh, I guess this really shows that Giovanni doesn't care about Pikachu (well to be fair he probably didn't even know this was the same one JJM have been chasing for years and even if he did he would probably be pissed at them because he did in 10 seconds what they couldn't even do "which was battle and catch both Pikachu AND Ash" in 15 years...).

    Heck if I knew Pikachu would get beat that easily, I'd rather see Tyson's Meowth come back and battle Persian. Its whole "vengeance" on all Persian would probably make it battle that much harder.

    This just shows how "weak" Pikachu is this season as compared to other regions, or because of time they had to make that battle end as quickly as possible. I mean it didn't really KO Pikachu it just distracted it and Ash long enough for them to get captured.

    Based on the number of battles and events that are being held in these episodes it should have really been 3 or 4 episodes instead of 2 or heck even a "movie-like" format because if this really IS the end of Team Rocket you would think the writers would give the original villains a proper sendoff.

    As for the "Cross"-reference ehh...can't really say how the public will react to that especially in the dub. That is an extremely touchy subject, I mean I'm Christian but if I were a parent or something I really wouldn't like that kind of reference to be used ESPECIALLY in a children's show. If anything the Alpha/Omega reference (if it is one mind you) could refer to this really being the beginning of TR's ultimate plan and the end of their era as well. But this was just a comparison I just thought up nothing serious.

    But seriously, since most of this setup is going to be resolved in next week's episode I'll keep this review short. I mean for me the highlight was Ash vs. Giovanni.

  3. #63
    Justice HumanDawn's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 096 "Meloetta and the Undersea Temple!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulisthebest View Post
    As someone mentioned before, it was a let down seeing that it only used moves released 3 generations since Kanto. Power Gem (looked a lot like Hyper Beam to me...) and Shadow Claw.
    You can put the blame on Persian's moveset in Generation One. What did you want it to use? Scratch and Leer xD? I don't see what's so bad about Persian not using Generation One moves. They're pretty boring IMO so I'm glad that they used more exciting moves from future generations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulisthebest View Post
    Gosh, I guess this really shows that Giovanni doesn't care about Pikachu (well to be fair he probably didn't even know this was the same one JJM have been chasing for years and even if he did he would probably be pissed at them because he did in 10 seconds what they couldn't even do "which was battle and catch both Pikachu AND Ash" in 15 years...).
    Yeah. It really does make Giovanni be portrayed to be a huge threat compared to JJM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulisthebest View Post
    This just shows how "weak" Pikachu is this season as compared to other regions, or because of time they had to make that battle end as quickly as possible. I mean it didn't really KO Pikachu it just distracted it and Ash long enough for them to get captured.
    ... Not really. If you're thinking about the Pikachu that defeated Brandon's Regice with Volt Tackle after Regice used Rest, that was just poor writing. You've said it yourself earlier in your post. Persian must have been well-trained to be able to take the upper hand on Pikachu. Just because Pikachu didn't have the upper hand here, it doesn't mean that he's weaker this saga. Giovanni made Ash and Pikachu get close to each other so he could then put them in on the same cube.

  4. #64

    Default Re: BW 096 "Meloetta and the Undersea Temple!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulisthebest View Post

    As for the "Cross"-reference ehh...can't really say how the public will react to that especially in the dub. That is an extremely touchy subject, I mean I'm Christian but if I were a parent or something I really wouldn't like that kind of reference to be used ESPECIALLY in a children's show.
    Well I am a mother, I have a little girl who also likes pokemon and I confess that the symbol of the cross put me very uncomfortable, both for me and for her. They could reflect on the meaning that it could be for some people, especially combined with the possession.
    My NEW Team Rocket website (im a co-webmistress: http://roketto-dan.e-monsite.com/
    I am french, sorry for my poor bad english... I hope that you understand a maximum of what I writes

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    Ma-ho-ho-ho! TeddiUrsa's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 096 "Meloetta and the Undersea Temple!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jez View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulisthebest View Post

    As for the "Cross"-reference ehh...can't really say how the public will react to that especially in the dub. That is an extremely touchy subject, I mean I'm Christian but if I were a parent or something I really wouldn't like that kind of reference to be used ESPECIALLY in a children's show.
    Well I am a mother, I have a little girl who also likes pokemon and I confess that the symbol of the cross put me very uncomfortable, both for me and for her. They could reflect on the meaning that it could be for some people, especially combined with the possession.
    The cross is a symbol for suffering, but Christians don't have the monopoly on the act of crucifying. Meloetta IS suffering because of Sakaki so the cross symbolic works. It isn't meant to be religious so I don't know why the religious debates keep poping up. To be honest, the cross in the scene isn't even that obvious.

    The episode felt kinda rushed. I am looking forward to next week mostly because this is a rare instance when the Pokémon anime isn't 100% predictable.Will Sakaki die? Will the idiot-trio convert back to their former selves or will the disappear together with the organisation? Will Shirona and Iris finally make out with each other? Maybe Satoshi and Dent?

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    ∠(>w<) #634 Argy's Avatar Retired Staff
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    Default Re: BW 096 "Meloetta and the Undersea Temple!"

    The human body naturally makes a cross shape when our arms are outstretched, so I really don't think there's any kind of intentional religious symbolism here.

  7. #67

    Default Re: BW 096 "Meloetta and the Undersea Temple!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Argy View Post
    The human body naturally makes a cross shape when our arms are outstretched, so I really don't think there's any kind of intentional religious symbolism here.
    that plus....was there even a cross involved? i saw a shape in the wall that fit meloetta but it was a far cry from a cross.
    not to mention, the last thing the japanese are concerned about is how sensitive some americans might be to even a hint of something christian (and this is REALLY stretching it, again, there is no cross?). japan's most popular weddings are loosely based on christian ones in movies with fake priest actors who are even hired white guys who put on false southern accents (no really, i've been to some) and they love christmas but have NO clue there is ANYTHING religious about it. japan is a "if it looks cool we'll use it" society when it comes to religion. born shinto, wed christian and buried buddhist, as they say.

    just my two cents about why these accusations of insensitive blasphemy confuse me.

  8. #68
    ロケット団よ永遠 Dogasu's Avatar Retired Staff
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    Default Re: BW 096 "Meloetta and the Undersea Temple!"

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty
    Anyone feel those two Rocket grunts should have been Butch and Cassidy?
    Not necessarily, but I do think they should have gotten weaker pokemon. I mean think about it; these two no-name grunts have a Saidon and a Goronya while Musashi and Kojirou, who we assume outrank them, are fighting with their unevolved Koromori and Deathmas? That seems kind of backwards to me.
    Webmaster of Dogasu's Backpack. Last updated on July 19th, 2014


  9. #69
    Justice HumanDawn's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 096 "Meloetta and the Undersea Temple!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty
    Anyone feel those two Rocket grunts should have been Butch and Cassidy?
    Not necessarily, but I do think they should have gotten weaker pokemon. I mean think about it; these two no-name grunts have a Saidon and a Goronya while Musashi and Kojirou, who we assume outrank them, are fighting with their unevolved Koromori and Deathmas? That seems kind of backwards to me.
    If it weren't for Desumasu's Will-O-Wisp they wouldn't have been able to disable Meloetta's invisibility powers.

  10. #70
    ∠(>w<) #634 Argy's Avatar Retired Staff
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    Default Re: BW 096 "Meloetta and the Undersea Temple!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    Not necessarily, but I do think they should have gotten weaker pokemon. I mean think about it; these two no-name grunts have a Saidon and a Goronya while Musashi and Kojirou, who we assume outrank them, are fighting with their unevolved Koromori and Deathmas? That seems kind of backwards to me.
    I was surprised that those two Pokémon were given to grunts instead of to Sakaki, a ground-type trainer (Persian is obviously an exception).

  11. #71

    Default Re: BW 096 "Meloetta and the Undersea Temple!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Argy View Post
    I was surprised that those two Pokémon were given to grunts instead of to Sakaki, a ground-type trainer (Persian is obviously an exception).
    Judging from the Pokémon used in Viridian Gym (Cloyster, Kingler, Rhydon, Golem and Machamp), Persian isn't really an exception. But it's possible that Giovanni lended his Rhydon and Golem to the grunts.

  12. #72
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    Default Re: BW 096 "Meloetta and the Undersea Temple!"

    Reused scenes from TR/TP special.

  13. #73
    Child of the Atom Hellion's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 096 "Meloetta and the Undersea Temple!"

    My feelings toward this episode: Lukewarm. It was action-packed, visually good, and... yeah... that's pretty much it.

    Did the episode do its job of setting up the story? Yes. It explained who the players were, what was going on, what was the point of capturing Meloetta, and set up next week's showdown. Did the episode made me care about any of the characters involved here? No. Did it keep me on the edge of my seat and made me really want to tune in next week? No.

    First up, the players were kinda not really showcased. The TRio wasn't really there and weren't really expressive throughout this whole thing, I didn't really get a feeling of who they were as characters in this episode and considering this arc could have monumental repercussion, they were kinda just there. Was there a difference between them and the two soulless grunts? No, not really. I kinda wish we saw more the events through their perspective, heard their thoughts, their feelings, felt an almost obsessive devotion towards Sakaki and a desperation to please him. Also, what's is face goggle boy and Meloetta's first encounter with TR are things that should have been shown before instead of those numerous "TR looks at a screen with Seger and blandly say that the plan is moving forward" Because those flashback ate up a lot of time that could have been more about really selling this arc.

    Second, the episode while setting up the story for next week episode failed to convey a real sense of "Wow the world is ending" feeling. That feeling of urgency, of high stakes, of the world being on the brink of disaster wasn't really there. It kinda felt like another Thursday at times and for an episode with a lot of things in it, it felt weirdly slow in terms of pace and progression, almost static at times as opposed to putting more fast cuts, etc. Also, the last shot of the show wasn't really showing a real menace, a tangible threat and in that, the episode was kind of a letdown.

    Ok, but could've been a whole lot better if they actually had taken the time in this episode and all the previous BW episode to give me a reason to care about TR and about Meloetta.

    Quote Originally Posted by Queen Cynthia View Post
    One point of criticism though: Was that "crucifixion" scene really necessary?
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulisthebest View Post
    As for the "Cross"-reference ehh...can't really say how the public will react to that especially in the dub. That is an extremely touchy subject, I mean I'm Christian but if I were a parent or something I really wouldn't like that kind of reference to be used ESPECIALLY in a children's show.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jez View Post
    Well I am a mother, I have a little girl who also likes pokemon and I confess that the symbol of the cross put me very uncomfortable, both for me and for her. They could reflect on the meaning that it could be for some people, especially combined with the possession.
    You can say a lot of things about this fandom, but it's entertaining as hell. XD There's absolutely no religious symbolism here.

  14. #74
    Registered User Paulisthebest's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 096 "Meloetta and the Undersea Temple!"

    After re-watching the episode, alright the cross-reference is similar to other shows like when Majin Vegeta used the Energy Ring move on Goku to pin him to a cliff and it was similar to Meloetta's position or Darkseid in the Superman the Animated Series when he had Superman trapped to a machine his arms were spread across and his legs bound.

    Alright, I was wrong I admit it there is no cross-refernece. I was watching the show and thinking like a 21-year-old instead of a person that just enjoyed the show. Regardless, I take back what I said before alright...

  15. #75
    Angelic Champion Queen Cynthia's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 096 "Meloetta and the Undersea Temple!"

    To all those who obviously have no problems with the crucifixion scene, I'd like to say this:
    It was more than obvious that they made a reference to the crucifixion of Christ here and that is a prime example of blasphemy. If I had the email address of the people in charge at OLM, I'd write a letter of complaint because it's simply unacceptable! Especially in the western world where there are still enough Christians, that scene will immediately be associated with the Christian religion and hopefully it will lead to a public outcry so the writers will have to realize what they've done.

    Just look at that star-like thing in which Meloetta was trapped. This alone was a painfully obvious reference to a cross and to make things even worse, we had Meloetta suffering and stretched out with both arms on the cross. Can it even get more obvious?

    Quote Originally Posted by TeddiUrsa
    The cross is a symbol for suffering, but Christians don't have the monopoly on the act of crucifying. Meloetta IS suffering because of Sakaki so the cross symbolic works. It isn't meant to be religious so I don't know why the religious debates keep poping up. To be honest, the cross in the scene isn't even that obvious.
    Then I suggest you get yourself some glasses, and fast.
    Anyways, are you kidding? It's BECAUSE of Jesus Christ that the cross has its symbolic meaning. Without him, a cross would just be two wooden beams, arranged in a right angle. So, yes, I guess we Christians are indeed entitled to claim the monopoly for the cross and its religious meaning.

    As a teacher and Christian I'm outraged that Pokemon, the show I've always loved since my childhood, has gone so far! They've destroyed Ash, they're about to attack Cynthia and now they're apparently showing no respect whatsoever for the biggest religion on earth. How bad, how BAD can it get....
    "When I was younger, I used to dream of nothing other than becoming powerful through being victorious in battle, and so I trained endlessly."


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