Thread: BW 093 "The Junior Cup of Farewells and Meetings!"

Originally Posted by $onyhater21

Originally Posted by Kenji-girl

I know Alder is the champion and all but did it REALLY have to be OHKO?

Cynthia*Cough* Garchomp*Cough*


Since Cynthia OHKO'ed Paul's entire team it wouldn't make sense to make another champion seem less-powerful, it's the writers way of saying "there is no strongest champion, all of them are equal in power".

It's more of how it went down which is why I found it a little unreasonable. Okay, they want to make them equal in power. That's reasonable. But Paul's Pokemon weren't shown blowing through a Pokemon competition in the prior three episodes with relative ease like Serperior did. In fact, all of the battles he had prior to Cynthia didn't go as smoothly as Trip and Serperior in the Junior Cup. And aside from Torterra, most of the ones he used were relatively weak and Garchomp is a pseudo-legendary and all. It was also Torterra's debut so we didn't get to see its strength before hand. To get to the point, it's really not about the champion's power but the Trainer's Pokemon resistances to that power. Being that Serperior withstood three fire-types and a bug-type to get through the competition, I would expect for it at least to take two hits.

Does it really matter? A victory is a victory.

I find it amusing how Dawn's departure was so low-key that they had to introduce a new rival in the same episode. Looking back its such a change from how much damn promotion Dawn got back in the DP series.

A shocking episode. Swapping "Farewells and Meetings" with "Horrors" or "Bad Writing" would have been a much more fitting title...

Originally Posted by Hellion

This episode proved one thing without a doubt. Adeku is not only the strongest Champion that ever appeared in the Animé, but he's also the wisest. You can tell that he was really insightful by the way he battled Shooti to teach him something through battle and his words of wisdom were vibrant afterwards.

To have Shirona come after that and just spout her usual bs just proved how inferior she was to Adeku.

You're kidding, aren't you? (Sure you must be, everything else wouldn't make sense...)
Do you have ANY arguments for this opinion? What exactly about the way he battled was more insightful or better than what Cynthia does? Tell me! Alder wanted to teach Trip a lesson? So did Cynthia with Paul! And the reason why Trip obviously accepted Alder's advice immediately was because compared to Paul, he's still a relatively new and inexperienced trainer and a less stubborn one, too. It's not that Alder was more convincing but that Cynthia's words of wisdom were just too mature for stubborn and arrogant Paul to understand.
So again my question: Where did Alder do something that was superior to Cynthia?? Let me remind you that it was his Pokemon Boufallant that got tossed around by Serperior pretty badly before it finally got the chance to attack.
To be honest, Alder's battle looked nothing like what you expect from a champion. And if it hadn't been his duty to battle the winner of the Junior Cup, I guess he would probably have fallen asleep again.

It's more of how it went down which is why I found it a little unreasonable. Okay, they want to make them equal in power. That's reasonable. But Paul's Pokemon weren't shown blowing through a Pokemon competition in the prior three episodes with relative ease like Serperior did. In fact, all of the battles he had prior to Cynthia didn't go as smoothly as Trip and Serperior in the Junior Cup. And aside from Torterra, most of the ones he used were relatively weak and Garchomp is a pseudo-legendary and all. It was also Torterra's debut so we didn't get to see its strength before hand.

But we also learned that Torterra was Paul's very first Pokemon and that he had already traveled through several regions, meaning that his Pokemon must have got plenty of training and experience in the meantime. So it's safe to assume that Torterra is way stronger than Serperior because the Unova region is Trip's first journey. If you ask me, the writers just made Seperior appear extremely strong in order to give the Junior Cup a touch of excitement. We all know they often change the power level of Pokemon arbitrarily, case in point: Pikachu.

And finally, the way Garchomp finished off Torterra looked much crueler and more superior than Bouffalant, which by the way had to resort to Sap Zipper, something Cynthia would never have to rely on because of her pure power

Originally Posted by Queen Cynthia

Where did Alder do something that was superior to Cynthia??

What he said was infinitely more insightful and the way he battled Shooti, was infinitely more purposeful. Adeku actually tried to impart something to Shooti, to teach him something as opposed to Shirona's "well, he's not really going to change so I'm just gonna spout that one line I have and act like it's wisdom".

And if it hadn't been his duty to battle the winner of the Junior Cup, I guess he would probably have fallen asleep again.

Which would have been more entertaining than anything Cynthia ever did. XD

Originally Posted by Hellion

Originally Posted by Queen Cynthia

Where did Alder do something that was superior to Cynthia??

What he said was infinitely more insightful and the way he battled Shooti, was infinitely more purposeful. Adeku actually tried to impart something to Shooti, to teach him something as opposed to Shirona's "well, he's not really going to change so I'm just gonna spout that one line I have and act like it's wisdom".

So then tell me what exactly he said. I bet you can't even translate it without asking somebody else :P
And at least Cynthia has one line that indeed shows her wisdom. Alder has nothing, absolutely nothing! Just because you don't like Cynthia's lines, or what's more likely, don't understand the deeper meaning of them, you don't have the right to talk about her in such a cynical way.

And if it hadn't been his duty to battle the winner of the Junior Cup, I guess he would probably have fallen asleep again.

Which would have been more entertaining than anything Cynthia ever did. XD

No, it would have been more ridiculous than anything awkward Alder ever did ;)
By the way, tournaments have always been serious business and not a entertaining comedy shows...

Originally Posted by Queen Cynthia

And at least Cynthia has one line that indeed shows her wisdom.

When two people meet, something happens! Thank you Shirona, really couldn't have worked that one out without you. You know, for all my life, I thought meeting other people was utterly meaningless and had no impact on me, but Shirona showed us all that that was a lie. Then she proceeded to point out that the sky was blue and the grass was green and that the sun was warm, cause that's about how deep she's going. She was as shallow as a kiddie pool in this episode and really served no purpose whatsoever but to ruin what could have been an interesting battle with her incessant and redundant prattling.

By the way, tournaments have always been serious business and not a entertaining comedy shows...

By the way, tournaments have always had both elements of comedy and drama, and were never full on serious business. To me, the Adeku and Shooti battle exemplified that to a T.

Originally Posted by Hellion

Originally Posted by Queen Cynthia

And at least Cynthia has one line that indeed shows her wisdom.

When two people meet, something happens! Thank you Shirona, really couldn't have worked that one out without you. You know, for all my life, I thought meeting other people was utterly meaningless and had no impact on me, but Shirona showed us all that that was a lie. Then she proceeded to point out that the sky was blue and the grass was green and that the sun was warm, cause that's about how deep she's going. She was as shallow as a kiddie pool in this episode and really served no purpose whatsoever but to ruin what could have been an interesting battle with her incessant and redundant prattling.

First of all, every saying wants to express some truth about everyday life. The function of a saying is not to give us completely new scientific insights but to remind us of the truth and the basic things in life we tend to forget so often.
Now regarding Cynthia's famous catchphrase, in hindsight it's easy for you to say that you could have worked it out without her, but the question is not if it's a simple truth or not but if you're the first one to come up with a new idea. I'd like you to read the story about the Egg of Columbus, and then I hope you'll understand ;)
And even if Cynthia's line expresses a simple truth at first glance, it actually goes so much deeper if you take a closer look because it affects the basis of all human life. "Whenever one life meets another life, something will be born" is so profound, it could as well be found in the Holy Bible.

By the way, tournaments have always had both elements of comedy and drama, and were never full on serious business.

Did you forget the Sinnoh League? It has been the best competition so far, exactly because there was no comedy in it.

Originally Posted by Queen Cynthia

Did you forget the Sinnoh League? It has been the best competition so far, exactly because there was no comedy in it.

Did you forget Team Rocket, Conway and Cynthia herself?

Originally Posted by Queen Cynthia

if you're the first one to come up with a new idea.

Except it wasn't new at all. The whole show has always been about relationships influencing characters, and numerous characters have expressed that idea. In this very episode, the same could have been expressed without Shirona by, gasp, actually letting Hikari and Satoshi talk through their battle about how they had influenced one another and what their friendship meant. But no, Shirona had to go on with her insignificant drivel.

Did you forget the Sinnoh League? It has been the best competition so far, exactly because there was no comedy in it.

Fukumaru in the Kohei battle was all about comedy, as was Shirona's presence. Jun and Hikari in the stands had their moments as well.

Originally Posted by Human

Originally Posted by Queen Cynthia

Did you forget the Sinnoh League? It has been the best competition so far, exactly because there was no comedy in it.

Did you forget Team Rocket, Conway and Cynthia herself?

Originally Posted by Hellion

Did you forget the Sinnoh League? It has been the best competition so far, exactly because there was no comedy in it.

Fukumaru in the Kohei battle was all about comedy, as was Shirona's presence.

huh? Tell me only one scene during the Sinnoh League in which Cynthia was supposed to be funny! Being indecisive about which ice cream to choose from? Eating ice cream publicly? Don't feel offended but if you consider that funny, you must have a strange sense of humor. And I wasn't talking about Gible, Barry or Team Rocket, I was just focusing on Cynthia.

Originally Posted by Hellion

Originally Posted by Queen Cynthia

if you're the first one to come up with a new idea.

Except it wasn't new at all. The whole show has always been about relationships influencing characters, and numerous characters have expressed that idea. In this very episode, the same could have been expressed without Shirona by, gasp, actually letting Hikari and Satoshi talk through their battle about how they had influenced one another and what their friendship meant. But no, Shirona had to go on with her insignificant drivel.

Now you're contradicting yourself. On the one hand you're saying that the power and importance of relationships has always been an important element of the show but on the other hand you keep calling Cynthia's lines "insignificant drivel". Either it's insignificant in which case the message of the whole show, and the show itself, would be insignificant or it's not as unimportant as you think it is in which case I have to assume that you just don't like Cynthia and thus desperately look for reasons to insult her. (I won't allow that though)

And even if you're right when you're saying that Cynthia wasn't the first one to come up with that idea, you at least have to admit that nobody before her was able to express that thought in such a beautiful, profound and solemn way. This alone makes her superior to anyone else!

Originally Posted by Queen Cynthia

Being indecisive about which ice cream to choose from? Eating ice cream publicly?

Those were put there for comedy.

On the one hand you're saying that the power and importance of relationships has always been an important element of the show but on the other hand you keep calling Cynthia's lines "insignificant drivel".

It takes the message of the show and turns it into insignificant drivel because instead of actually showing that through Satoshi and Hikari battling, showing how their journey and friendship influenced one another, we have Shirona saying really obvious stuff that reads like a bad Hallmark card or a cheap fortune cookie. A leitmotiv is just a string of words until you show it through actions. Here, Shirona's words were as empty as her character and actually took away from what could have been a great battle that would have conveyed the show's message much better.

You know, I didn't look at this thread at all until today, but... it's hilarious how much nonsensical criticism of dialogue the critics themselves admit to not actually understanding the content of there as here.
Particularly the people complaining about how Shirona's "words of wisdom" were the same as always (they weren't), and how Adeku's words were far more insightful (they mostly touched on the same things) were amusing.

EDIT: The last page or so has been almost entirely a former moderator's back-and-forth arguing about some dialogue he made up and pretended was actually in the episode, too. Even better. Sorry for being flippant, but this is too funny to not comment on.

I don't think Kotetsu is stupid he is more like insane, gullible and clumsy. He gets bogus information from an unknown source and believes it stupidity does not explain that but insanity does. People can believe what others say but still be good at problem solving, math and debating. Grabbing the wrong object is not a factor of your intelligence it is a mistake clumsy. While he spout out things which were completely wrong he did have a good explanation for the 8th badge slot which was consistent with what we saw in Kanto. Stupidity does not explain why he would think the Unova league is in Kanto because he has no reason to believe that. It comes from no where. And you can't be too hard on the guy for getting the date wrong I missed the Arceus event because I made a math error and thought I had more time. Does that mean I'm stupid? Absolutely not because I'm still able to do math well other times and I have could explanation skills at times. I'm also able to deduce things and understand concepts.

WAIT was he looking right at the remote in that case unless he was tired he's dumb