Thread: BW 090 "The Junior Cup Gets Underway! Kairyu VS Tunbear!!"

I'm feeling both Dawn and Burgundy had no real reason to be in this tournament. So Dawn's only win is going to be a 3 second battle with Piplup?

Dawn's whole role in BW2 has been rather lackluster so far, and seeing her being swept under the rug for this tournament isn't helping. Burgundy has officially become a lost cause and a joke rival.

I can't say that the next episodes won't be better, but this ep left a sour taste in my mouth.

First part was uninteresting. No episode until 23rd August will make me impatient for this Junior Cup to go by.

I never really cared how Iris's character was handled, but this is the first time I have been disappointed in her. I mean her cheering over 'her victory' against Langley even though she didn't do anything. As Langley quite rightly pointed out it was Kairyu who beat her, not Iris. Iris should have shown concern despite winning it, Kairyu didn't listen to her throughout the battle and thus making this whole thing pure luck. But nope, Iris only worried during the battle and after she won no fretting at all, Iris is just happy over a win her disobedient Kairyu did by it itself.

What I enjoyed here include; The Dent and Cabernet interaction remaining entertaining even when it's short, I also loved it when Cabernet told Hikari to be careful of Dent. And Dent feeling nervous towards seeing his muscle-bound opponent was funny, also of course Adeku would hit on Shirona of course. There was decent entertainment at least.

Originally Posted by sunyshore

i am surprised nobody is mentioning how many cryptic references cynthia and caitlin made to caitlin's past, including cynthia mentioning how caitlin had lots to overcome herself (her out of control psychic powers?) then caitlin pausing to remember (to herself, not out loud) she has "you" to thank for her being able to grow up, with a soft flashbacky feel, what i thought was an obvious reference to darach.

basically 90% of their dialogue was cryptic references to caitlin's youth at the sinnoh battle frontier.

Oh wow. THE WASTED POTENTIAL. We have like, a year left worth of episodes assuming that Generation Six comes out in September 2013. Surely she's going to show up again so we could flesh out her plot, right? RIGHT? </3 :(

If she's not, then I say DAMN this tournament for focusing on Trip's love affair with Alder and Iris' Dragon Satan. I'm pretty sure that Caitlin, one of the most complex, interesting and compelling characters in the games, could be more entertaining to watch. sleeps only my ass

I'm giving this episode major bonus points for ticking off one of my wishes for Best Wishes. Now GET DARACH HERE. Like, LIKE, THIS MUST HAVE BEEN FORESHADOWING FOR A FUTURE EVENT THAT HAS HER TAKE PART IN RIGHT? They wouldn't make them say something out of the blue with no exploration on the subject right?

HERE'S DIALOGUE IN CYNTHIA'S VILLA IN THE GAMES:

Cynthia's villa
"Having everything go your way is the road to disillusionment. Knowing the difference between what's impossible and what's possible... I used to know someone who talked about that a lot."
"No matter how hard I try, I cannot defeat Cynthia. Before, I would have exploded with rage. Now, I have the tranquility to reflect on my performance to see how I can improve."
"Tell me something. Are you familiar with Battle Castles? You can find them in Johto and Sinnoh, so challenge them to improve yourself."
"This is my villa. I have villas all over the world, and I allow Cynthia to use them. You are welcome to come and play whenever you wish."
"Having no psychic powers at all is better than having psychic powers you can't control."

They did Flint and Volkner's, surely they can do Cynthia and Caitlin's?

Yeah, judging by the pictures of Filb this episode seems to be a massive disappointment. Chillaccino and Lanculus's debuts turn out to be pointless cameos, Cabernet is knocked out of the tournament with her Hihidaruma not getting to use a single move (what's the point of her being there, except to make snarky remarks about Dent), Satoshi's Hahakomori made a rare appearance that was nothing more than stock footage and Iris's Kairyu walked over Tunbear despite the fact it doesn't obey or like her... and if the thing doesn't like her why did it let itself be captured anyway?

Not much that can be said that hasn't been already. Very disappointing, and rushed. Alder was pretty amusing, and Caitlin/Cynthia's battle was fun. Other than that though, it felt more like a montage than an actual episode. The real cherry on the shit sundae though was Dragonite taking no damage from any Ice moves, and just beating the living piss out of Beartic. I know the anime rarely follows the game logic, but seriously. Come on. I'm supposed to believe that a Dragon type can shrug off x4 super effective moves, but an Ice type falls to one normally super effective move?

Originally Posted by Signas

I'm supposed to believe that a Dragon type can shrug off x4 super effective moves, but an Ice type falls to one normally super effective move?

Yes. Quadruple type advantages have never been properly referenced in the anime. Neither has STAB, for that matter.

I really liked seeing Cynthia vs. Caitlin. Makes me hope that we'll see both of them after the tournament. Trip seems pretty determined to go up against Alder so it's nice to see that come up. As for the battles, I'm actually not that surprised that it was mostly rushed besides the end battle. Between the exhibition match and the final first round match, they couldn't have put some detailed matches all into one episode. Maybe an extra episode would've helped but overall, it wasn't too bad imo. Pretty decent with my favorite part being Cynthia vs. Caitlin.

I felt like I was watching an episode of Dragonball Z at times. :o Most of those fights were decided by differences in power, and that's pretty much this episode.

I'm only saying this for BW2 (as I haven't seen much of BW), but so far I feel like the show is struggling with the way it's pairing confidence and excitement into everything. There's so much respect for everyone's "specialness," if that's a word, that losing to anybody is okay, and beating anybody is fine too. Nothing really has any meaning or urgency. I really wouldn't have blinked at all if Ash had lost in this episode, or if any of the main characters had lost. This tournament could have served as a real connection to the league with it being so close, but I don't think Ash or anyone is really emphasizing this tournament as being a really important indicator for that (of course, Dawn, Iris, Cilan wouldn't have a reason to compete then). Instead, the atmosphere is like that you see at maybe kid's competitions, I think, where you're supposed to applaud the good from winners and losers. Losers tried their best; winners were just a little more special or lucky (and that goes back to the valid complaints about Dragonite and its Iris that have already been made). And so, the meaningful competitiveness of the battles just isn't there at all. Battles are being decided by the demeanor of the characters rather than the actual battling-or, battles are won as soon as the character is stepping onto the battling field. There definitely is a huge prize involved here, but (again with this reference) I'm not taking it anymore seriously right now than the exhibition bout against Hercule granted to Trunks for winning the junior division back in Dragonball Z. The fact that Adeku seemed like a flirt doesn't really help either; I don't think this episode, the way it was constructed, was the right time for that scene. :> Hercule was famous for stomach cramps; maybe Adeku will get poison jabbed by a random Croagunk or something so he can't compete. :o right now, I really don't care either way who battles him or whether he battles or not. Some posts have called for 4 episodes for this arc, but I actually think fewer would have been better. The tournament to battle Palmer was done pretty well in an episode, and I think both tournaments have a similar level of tension to them right now (I personally am not intrigued by Shooti's anger, but I also didn't watch the episode where this all started from; :o I have seen the way Shinji's resentment for Brandon was done though, and I get the feeling that story arc was a good deal more complex than this one here is-certainly involved Ash more, I think).

How can some of you call this the worst tournament ever when that one with Jesse borrowing Aipom happened? or the one where they all battled to get Togepi (even though it was hilarious)?

I'll put this on the top ten worst Pokemon episode list

Originally Posted by Hellion

Oh wow, this episode was bad and rushed. Adeku and Cabernet were funny in the beginning, and I really liked the interactions between Dent, Cabernet and Hikari. Shooti showing some personality besides apathy was equally nice, but therein lies the sole good things I have to say about this episode, cause the rest was pretty much awful.

The exhibition match at the beginning looked good and all, but it was kinda gratuitous and there to be there and introduce game characters. I would have rather seen good battles from actual participants in the tournament. I think Shirona's ugly ass cape had more screen time than Cabernet in this episode. XD I expected quick blink you miss it battles for every battle that didn't involve two main/recurring characters, but even those that did looked like crap. Shooti's smug inner comments about Adeku were longer than the match itself. What's the point of having Cabernet there if she's just going to get the random CotD treatment? Use a CotD instead. One-hit KO crapapaloozza follows. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn. Now, I thought that Langley v Iris would be cheap, but it managed to exceed my expectations of how cheap it was going to be. Look how Dragonite can take all of Tsunbear's attacks without really being affected cause he's so much stronger than everyone. Major yawn. What bugged me is that the episode was clearly trying to create some tension and make the audience feel bad for Iris, but lulz that majorly failed because there was no consequence to Iris' problem and guess what? This is a battle she should have lost. She enters a tournament with a Pokémon she has never trained or really worked with, she doesn't know his style, how they work together, then realizes he's disobedient and... does that cost her anything? She wins the match, everyone's super happy for her, except Langley who's portrayed as being really unlikable because how can you not cheer Iris and her overpowered Dragonite. There's no consequences, no cost, no struggle, no hardship, nothing to really test her character and force her to grow and progress. It's a match she should have lost, or been disqualified, or retired from, whatever. There's nothing gained from having her make it past round one except some more Iris glorification, cause heaven forbid she should actually have flaws, actually lose early in a tournament, actually be portrayed as a character that can still get better and actually be held accountable to her bullshit. It didn't feel earned, it just felt cheap.

Also, commentator guy and Adeku lacked the sexual tension that commentator guy and Don George have, it really made the commentary less interesting. XD

...Uhm what?

This was a pretty bad episode in my opinion.

The battles really didn't deserve to be classified as such outside of Gaburias/Gothiruselle and Tunbear/Kairyu, though I can't help but feel disappointed with both. The former was kinda rushed and I think had a lot of promise to be really good, especially with the dialogue as sunyshore posted. Tunbear/Kairyu could have certainly have been written to make Langley not look really weak and I thought Kairyu should have had some form of injury/damage shown. It just looked too okay after being completely frozen over I think.

On the flipside I enjoyed Shooty's angst towards Adeku and his dagger eyes are pretty lulzy xD

I really don't like this episode

Oh. My. God!
How long, tell me, how long will this show continue to go downhill until it finally reaches rock bottom? I can't bear it anymore! Although I have more or less put up with the fact that the writing is getting worse and worse, there's one last taboo, something that's "holy" to me so to speak:
I WILL NOT allow those writers to destroy my beloved Cynthia, the most wonderful character this show has ever had! I will not allow it under any circumstances!
Yes, since BW started the writers have obviously been trying hard to ruin every single character and so, although I hate to say it, everything we once cherished is gone.
And now that there's nothing left of the good old days and no character anymore who they could tear to pieces, it seems they decided to not even spare Cynthia. Ever since she appeared again, they've been ruining her reputation. It started with the training battle against Iris and this match against Caitlin was the straw that broke the camel's back!
Let's face the truth: In their wild frenzy of destruction the writers are keeping Cynthia on a short leash by intentionally robbing Garchomp of her power. In Sinnoh Cynthia and Garchomp would have swept the floor with Gothitelle and won with ease. And now look what a mess the writer have turn this into?! They even had the nerve to not give her a proper battle anymore! One and a half minutes for a battle that's meant to last 10? I mo longer have words for this mess.

Originally Posted by Ampharos King

That exhibition battle wasn't great, either. Neither pokemon got knocked out in the end, and it felt to me that Garchomp's strength diminished in this tournament than it had been in DP. Garchomp singlehandedly took down numerous ace pokemon belonging to Sinnoh E4 members in DP, but it struggled to take down Caitlin's Gothitelle. Of course, it was possible that neither trainer took the battle seriously because it was an exhibition match (i.e. Gothitelle used an electric-type attack on Garchomp, for example, to set up some fireworks).

You said it! But I'm afraid I can't share your opinion regarding the match not being a serious one. How I wished you were right but I think it's the bitter truth that the writers did it all on purpose for the reasons I mentioned before.

OMG, Cynthia, what have they done to you? If only I could save you from all this...
My only hope is those so-called "writers" will redeem Cynthia in the near future, otherwise I'm done with this show! I'm so furious, I'd stop watching it immediately if I wasn't such a big fan.

It was an exhibition match. You know, something to pump up everyone? I don't see how Shirona doing a one hit KO would be beneficial.

As for the episode itself, of course the battles would be crap with Takegami writing. I gave up long ago of expecting good non Rocket related things out of him.