Thread: BW 088 "Sommelier Detective Dent! The Mystery of the Missing Kumasyun!!"

What a disappointing episode this turned out to be. I was expecting it to be an amusing little filler to enjoy before the next bunch of episodes that I'm dreading, but it was so boring and just as irritating as the last one. What the hell was the point of turning Dawn into a copy of Iris? The two of them continue to be the most tiresome double act in the history of Pokemon, and now they're targeting Cilan. This gender divide is utterly pointless and it's making me feel uneasy; I don't know how someone who does all the cooking, is very kind, helpful and never has a bad word to say about anyone could possibly get tiring. Two wrongs don't necessarily make a right, but I nearly cheered when he shoved Dawn out of the way.

I wonder why on Earth Scraggy ever bothers to use Hi Jump Kick. It nearly always misses.

Originally Posted by Bouffalant Herdier

I don't know how someone who does all the cooking, is very kind, helpful and never has a bad word to say about anyone could possibly get tiring.

It's his overdramatic and mostly unneeded attention whoring behaviour that confuses the girls I think.
Some may call it a healthy attitude towards hobbies, others probably batshit insane.

Hikari is not doing much for me yet again...Dent is amusing but can't save a snoozer from being a snoozer like in most Benny ( ) centrics, sadly. He really works best in episodes where is isn't the focus, like in Pokabu's evo episode.
And Iwane's talent is kinda wasted yet again. Zurrokex screentime is always a plus to me though.

I really loved this episode. Filler or not, I love that Detective Dent is a THING. I was laughing so hard when Hikari was asking "um, does he do this often?" XD I also thought that Kumasyun had evolved in to Tsunbear for a minute, but ahhh, it was broing around with the Yogiras and it was so cuuuuute ;__; <3 The only disappointment I had is that we didn't get to see Chris and Kumasyun have their first battle, much less battle Yogiras and capture it like they discussed. I think that would have been a much better ending.

And depressed Dento... ;_;

Overall, I really enjoyed this episode. I'm glad we got to see Satoshi and Hikari training a bit, too. I've missed Mammoo. Choaboo is growing on me, too.

It was okay. It redeeming moments were the fat beartic and depressed dento. It took too long for Dent to guess Cubchoo was beartic. This was me:

It evolved. It evolved. IT EVOLVED! TOOK YOU LONG ENOUGH ASSHOLE wait were only a few minutes past the half way point and he guessed it so it can't be it.

I felt the routine stuff was just there for adding routine stuff there was nothing different about it to keep it fresh I mean do they know how running gags are supposed to work the latest Peter vs Chicken fight had time travel that's how running gags work. I felt it didn't make sense for them to try to push Chris into going on a journey when he is to young to. I always thought going on a journey was the norm so why did they assume that he needed to be swayed. That whole part didn't make sense. And it lacks closure since he said "I don't know".

Pretty lame ep but it didn't get me that mad

bAAaH I loved this episode. ;-; Dento sulking made my day(s) just like Tamaki then when Iris was all:

Iris: Friends can be a pain, but that's what makes it fun, right Dento?
Dento: *bolts up* fofahghugaga HAAAAI~

He's like a little puppy dog. I enjoyed this episode. Dawn made me laugh with her sarcastic comments....Dento hitting Dawn was amazing...Dento's crazy ideas were worth it too. It was a breath of fresh air seeing him get things wrong (albeit, I don't remember him solving anything last Detective episode XD)...and pretty much make a fool of himself. <3

Dent was adorable when he was sulking and then when he recovered. Funny how it was Iris who caused them both.

This episode contained something that I wanted the Tabunne episode to have but didn't- Actually seeing Sommelier Detective Dent doing some sleuthing. That's one of the main reasons why I enjoyed it. Also Dent's constant failures were entertaining, he's such a huge dork that's so into his hobbies he tries his hardest to look like he is amazing at them. There are some that he's great at, but others that he can make mistakes with and that is one of the reasons why I find Dent a loveable character, his adorkableness and flaws. It has been long obvious that Dent ain't perfect.

Hikari making sarcastic remarks towards Dent's antics was a lot more entertaining than all that groaning Iris has done about him being "a pain" at the back. And this is why I love that Iris actually screamed what she thought of Dent's odd behaviour right at him for the sole reason that Dent reacted to it. He is a very emotional person, huh? However, while I found them entertaining in those parts, I am unable to get into Hikari's and Iris's partnership as I've already stated that I'm not interested in seeing girls being all buddy buddy and that's why I do not care for it.

Edit: Forgot to say the reason why I preferred Hikari's reaction towards Dent's antics over the one Iris has had is because Hikari's sarcastic remarks were always different. I will note I did find Iris's groaning fun to watch at first, but seeing her having the exact same reaction for so long gets kinda tiresome. And that's the other reason why I loved it when Iris yelled her thoughts, because it's the first time Iris showed a different reaction to Dent's oddity.

Ratings: 7.0
Interestingly, it's the twelfth most watched episode of BW (with BW19) and most watched episode since Subway twins two-parter.

Originally Posted by martianmister

Ratings: 7.0
Interestingly, it's the twelfth most watched episode of BW (with BW19) and most watched episode since Subway twins two-parter.

For an episode that really didn't do anything, that's oddly depressing. Although I am glad to see the ratings back up.

This was an OK episode. Not great but not terrible for a filler. I enjoyed more Iris and Hikari bonding. Takeshi got another mention which was great though I find it ironic that Hikari of all people, would call Takeshi 'tiring'. Having said that, I'm quite enjoying Hikari's presence so far. The more laid back, humorous approach to BW is doing her character the world of good. Even Pochama isn't annoying me all that much, although I'm getting bored of his rivalry with Mijumaru. Dent was quite likable in this episode and I laughed when Iris called him annoying and he started sulking. It reminded me of Brock's reaction to the mention of Professor Ivy. Kumasyun is a cute enough Pokemon and that ignorant Tsunbear made me laugh. I half expected Langley to pop out and claim it as her Tsunbear. I'm looking forward to Langley meeting Hikar. The battle between Hikari and Ash was short lived and the outcome was expected. Is was nice to see Zuruggu battle, even though it was just a short one.

This episode was quite entertaining at parts but It's not one that will be remembered.

Oh wow. This episode... Dawn... Why did my worst fears of Dawn's return have to come true?

Why did Cilan's character have to suffer because of her presence? Cilan was magically transformed into this idiot just to glorify Dawn. In BW080, Clash of the Connoisseurs, we had Cilan thinking things thoroughly with logic and dedication to find out who the Pokemon Momocchi wanted was without this pointless Detective Connoisseur stuff. He gained the knowledge to do such thing so well in BW035 Where Did You Go, Audino? In this episode, Cilan is portrayed to be this hopeless idiot that gets everything wrong. His development in BW1 has been completely regressed just so Dawn could look smart.

Everybody in this episode except Dawn were treated to be slow thinking people. Instead of making Dawn work with Cilan more than Iris and Ash, they downgraded him to make Dawn come up with every solution. Cilan: "TIME TO CONTINUE BEING OOC AGAIN! CUBCHOO EVOLVED INTO A BEARTIC! IT'S FACT!" Dawn: "But how can you be sure you baffling idiot when his owner doesn't train him? How could he have evolved? I know! Lets throw his Pokeball at him to be sure!" Everybody else: "Wow Dawn! You're so smart and intelligent!"

She made everyone around her be unnecessarily stupid just so she could be unnecessarily glorified. Not only did they transform him into an idiot, they made Cilan be a complete wuss by making him sulk with Iris calling him annoying for his completely out of the blue change in character. We're talking about the same character that took no offence whatsoever or cried from the many insults that Burgundy directed at him. He only shrugged them off. What happens here? Cilan cries and hides under a tree.

The moral at the end that Iris said was the best part of the episode for me. It could have have been handled better by making Cilan just be annoyed at Iris instead of sulking, with her telling him that she still finds him to be a a good friend in the end. The same resolution would have happened, but Cilan wouldn't be downgraded for Dawn's sake.

All of this downgrading for some unnecessary Dawn glorification and bad "You're stupid, I'm smarter than you!" jokes.

This episode was.... mediocre. Not bad, but mediocre. I'm sure that if Dawn wasn't in it, it would have been an average episode.

Originally Posted by Human

She made everyone around her be unnecessarily stupid just so she could be unnecessarily glorified.

Subtle. XD But actually, it's weird that you're criticizing Hikari for being glorified when she's the one who contributed the least to the resolution of the plot and that the episode really went out of its way to have every character get their moment to shine in here. It's also interesting that you're bringing up the Tabunne episode since Dent was very much portrayed similarly in both episodes. In the Tabunne episode, Junsa notes that Dent often jumps too early to conclusions, as when he initially believes that the Tabunne are victims of a Psychic Pokémon, only to later be proven wrong. He reaches solutions through trial and errors, by eliminating possibilities in both episodes. That's in both episodes been used as a comedy element, making Dent's attempts to be a super detective never quite work out and his predictions never quite be as accurate as they could be.

First off, they started out by Dent claiming someone broke in and jumped over the fence, which Chris, not Hikari, disproves as there's an alarm system. Dent then logically assumes that there's a hole under the fence. Hikari pretty much says it's ludicrous, but gets proven wrong by Dent who also surmises that the hole has been used numerous times and recently as the ground was still soft. He then proceeds to track down Kumasyun. All of that is solely his doing. That leads them to bigger tracks and Kibago finds half-eaten apples. Dent suggests that they go where apples grow, Chris doesn't know because he and Kumasyun rarely go out of their mansion, so Iris steps in and leads the way, finding out with her acrobatic skills. That leads them to Tsunbear, again Dent very much in-character jumps to a conclusion thinking he's solved the case, only for Hikari to get her moment to be right too, by suggesting to try to recall it. Once they find Kumasyun, Dent is the one who explains what really happened, based on the clues he found under the fence. Satoshi works out that Kumasyun wants to battle and proceeds to battle Yogiras and everyone helps Chris realize that he should travel with both Pokémon. Everyone contributed to solving the case in their way and the episode really went out of it way to leave no one behind. To say that Dent was derailed to make Hikari look good ignores that he proved her wrong at the beginning of the episode, that he was the one who moved the action along, that everyone showed some smarts and some skill in this episode and how Dent was characterized in the last detective episode.

I give it an absolute ZERO!!

The fact that the girls were bringing CILAN DOWN WAS ENOUGH, forget that it was OH SO BORING, I didn't see much here, I didn't see any training, only the narrator mentioned the Jrs World Tourney :o

Hmm... I think I see now...

What you said still doesn't explain Dento's out of character behavior. Yes, I know that he goes through a personality change, but then why didn't he go Detective Sommelier in BW080? In that episode, he didn't jump to any conclusions. He instead thought things through, investigated his surroundings and found out who Momocchi's Pokemon was. It didn't come out of the blue because you get the feeling that his character developed to be a better Detective in BW035. Now I'm not saying that he shouldn't do any mistakes, what I'm saying is that he shouldn't have been making obviously wrong deductions for the sake of some comedy. When a character is downgraded for the sake of it, it doesn't turn out to be funny.

And you still haven't explained why he suddenly turned into a wuss and went into hiding under a tree. Yeah, yeah, comedy. Nope. As I've said, this is the same guy that got heavily insulted every time Cabernet showed up and took no offence whatsoever. He didn't go cry out in a corner, he instead shrugged them off and only sometimes took action when she demanded something to prove his worth as a Pokemon Sommelier. Iris calls him annoying due to his inappropriate behavior, he goes crying. Whaaaat?

they started out by Dent claiming someone broke in and jumped over the fence, which Chris, not Hikari, disproves as there's an alarm system.

Well, duh, Hikari doesn't live there XD. Even so, Dento should have asked Chris first if a huge mansion of an undeniably rich family had an alarm system.

That leads them to Tsunbear, again Dent very much in-character jumps to a conclusion thinking he's solved the case, only for Hikari to get her moment to be right too, by suggesting to try to recall it.

The Dento I love(don't we all :P?) and know doesn't jump to conclusions like an idiot when he should have thought that it was impossible for Chris' Pokemon to have evolved into a Tsunbear since it isn't a trained one. Even though that may be wrong, the scene could have been handled better by making Dento say that it was only a possibility. Cue in Hikari suggesting it to try to recall to get her moment without downgrading anybody's character. Nobody looks stupid for the sake of some laughs. BUT NOPE. IT DIDN'T HAPPEN LIKE THAT. That giggle was definitively worth the downgrade in Dento's character even though he did some good detective work(i.e. when he was in-character) a few minutes before!

Dent is the one who explains what really happened

After many unnecessary failures. And just by looking at the two Pokemon together, I'm pretty sure everybody figured it out themselves without the need of any Detective skills.

Though to tell you the truth, I'm not really annoyed by all of this. Bit annoyed, but not that much.

Originally Posted by Human

What you said still doesn't explain Dento's out of character behavior.

Except, he wasn't out of character. One of Dent's main personality traits is that he gets over-excited and his really passionate about a lot of things, to various degrees of success. I say to various degrees of success, because while he can be very good as some of the things he's passionate, like fishing, acting or trains, but on occasions, that over-excitement has actually gotten in the way of things, as was the case in his previous sleuthing endeavor. Dent loves detective stories so he wants desperately to be a detective, to solve a crime, so he keeps making wacky theories to "solve the case", but the comic element on which this entire episode is built upon is that there is no crime, that Dent is trying to solve a crime that doesn't exist. He so wants to catch the bad guy that he's not admitting the possibility that there is none. That's why he pushes Hikari out of the way to "solve the mystery", he wants to be the one to say the solution, even if it's apparent to everyone. Through both detective episodes, he jumps to conclusions because he's so passionate about solving the case and being this great detective. That's the point of this episode and the previous detective episode..

why didn't he go Detective Sommelier in BW080? In that episode, he didn't jump to any conclusions. He instead thought things through, investigated his surroundings and found out who Momocchi's Pokemon was. It didn't come out of the blue because you get the feeling that his character developed to be a better Detective in BW035.

He wasn't a Detective Sommelier in BW080, he was a Sommelier Sommelier. XD The dialogue in this episode really emphasizes that Dent sees this much differently than he did in BW080. He specifically calls this a locked room mystery and very much seems himself as a detective, which he didn't then.

And you still haven't explained why he suddenly turned into a wuss and went into hiding under a tree. Yeah, yeah, comedy. Nope. As I've said, this is the same guy that got heavily insulted every time Cabernet showed up and took no offence whatsoever. He didn't go cry out in a corner, he instead shrugged them off and only sometimes took action when she demanded something to prove his worth as a Pokemon Sommelier. Iris calls him annoying due to his inappropriate behavior, he goes crying. Whaaaat?

What's your point though? That they derailed Dent to make Iris look good? XD Maybe that's part of what was going on in this episode since the moral of the episode could be interpreted as Iris being a saint for lowering herself to travel with Dent despite his weirdness and Satoshi despite his childishness, but I don't think the reaction actually made Dent look bad in this episode, nor did I feel it was completely uncharacteristic. He never goes half-way into something, always feel very confident and being pointed out he failed at something he was excited about has always brought him down hard, for a short time, but he gets over it quickly, as he did in this episode. Like when he failed in his Kamiture cosplay or in his battle against Fuuro, his reactions were quite similar and equally funny.

Personally, I found it both funny and endearing, it showed how much he cared and his quirks are very much a part of who he is as a character.

Originally Posted by Karamazov

So, why were Zuruggu and the Yogiras fighting?

Demonstrating a battle for the benefit of Chris and Cubchoo. I liked the part at the beginning where Scraggy went up to Cubchoo first, then Ash had to correct it and tell it they were actually battling Larvitar.

Originally Posted by Moe

What's with yet another mention of Brock? Unless Dawn's point is to bring up the fact that Ash travels with relatively creepy people, it seems odd to mention him yet again if it isn't going to build up to something in a future episode.

Wasn't it obvious? Dawn was comparing Cilan's enthusiasm over being a detective to Brock's girl-craziness.

Originally Posted by wind

Dawn's comment to Iris about guys being a little weird kind of sums up one of the things that I tried to ignore about this episode, which was how very often those two girls were depicted together. It wouldn't have stood out so much, and I could have maybe bought the argument that this is a somewhat "girls think guys are looney" episode, if Ash and Cilan had had a similar sort of interaction. Back in Sinnoh, I thought one of the more positive things about when Dawn's rivals or friends were around (not that it happened overly frequently) was that it led to some rare quality Ash and Brock time where you could tell those two were really close. In this episode, it felt like (which is more important than reality sometimes) most of the scenes had Cilan, Ash,and then Iris+Dawn. I think in order to initiate a relationship between Iris and Dawn, the girls hang together argument is probably a necessity, since the writers don't have contests or something else in common to pull them together. But when Ash and Cilan just don't seem as close as the two girls, it takes away from the gender argument, and makes the fact that Iris and Dawn were pretty much together the entire time in any screenshot you look at really stand out, instead of being natural.

Moral support is very important to girls. Remember, they're both quite used to travelling without any other girls to talk to, so I think it's only natural for them to want to spend as much time together as they can. Not only that, we're talking about a species that often needs a support group to go to the bathroom.

Originally Posted by Yankees4life

I didn't see any training

Then what was the battle in the first part of the episode if it wasn't training?