REVIEW: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread - Page 8
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Thread: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

  1. #106
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    Default re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gym Leader Byron View Post
    What about Focus Blast?
    As I said above, I have no problem with a Pokémon learning a new move in battle, even a powerful one, if it stands on something. We knew Zuruggu could hold his own against this caliber of opponent, in this type of situation, it had grown steadily and worked to get its previous move. The move itself wasn't a game changer and Zuruggu still had to defeat his opponent on his own merit. Buizel learning Water Pulse in Sumomo's gym is another example of an extremely convenient but very well pulled off new move mid battle, because it stood on something. We knew Buizel could hold his own with his current moveset, that he was ready for this caliber of opponent, and when the battle turned south, he wouldn't give up and his established fighting spirit allowed him to pull through. Same as Zuruggu. Those are two situations where the new move didn't bother me because the foundations had been laid beforehand. In Kibago's case, there was no foundation for it learning Outrage or Giga Impact.

    So. So. So. Untrue.
    When was Kibago shown in an actual battle where it wasn't totally wrecked? Where it actually stood as equals against wild Pokémon or trainer pokémon. Only against babies or canonically extremely weak Pokémon (Zuruggu and Monmen) was he shown to hold his own, in a controlled environment. In BW066 and BW082, the last two episodes where Kibago was in a position to do something, it just ran around crying instead of showing it was able to fight, same he did against Tsunbear and Gobitto, because he's just not ready for a real battle. But instead of getting him ready through training, Kibago magically bypasses all of that and learns moves out of thin air to circumvent actually growing stronger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Human View Post
    Cynthia's character received some depth.
    She wasn't exactly shallow in DP. This was a continuation of what was seen there.

    You can't use examples to make Kibago look weak from over 40 episodes ago were in that time he obviously grew.
    Not my fault it was a hair ornament for the last year.

    It's still the same scenario of a Pokemon mastering a move.
    Which is not inherently bad or good. It's a story element taken on its own that can either be bad or good depending on how it fits into the bigger picture and interacts with the overall arc and characters. I have a holistic outlook where to me it's not just about Kibago learning Giga Impact, it's about how this fits with what was shown beforehand, what the character is, etc. All of it combined makes for a situation that was in my opinion uncompelling, unentertaining, unbelievable and therefore, didn't serve the episode or the story. That this kind of situation tends to happen a lot with Iris where she's shown having potential flaw only to reveal that it's not a flaw at all and that she knew what she was doing and was right all along really makes no sense in a character whose reason to be on the journey is to learn things. You're trying to reduce everything to the part while I look at the whole. It's two different approaches altogether and it makes the "well if you say X about Y, then you must say X about Z" arguments pointless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    That's kind of a lot to gather from a few attacks, isn't it? Especially considering that, in the time she's known Iris, she never saw her be overly protective of her pokemon (keeping Kibago out of its Monster Ball isn't exactly the same as babying it, y'know?) or be anything *but* serious when it comes to battling. Shirona never saw the "kodomo ne" side of Iris and thus had no reason to be suspicious of her or her training methods.
    Again, I don't disagree on any particular point you're making, but you and I are talking about two different things. You're trying to justify the sequence of events by a logic that is internal to the story, what I'm questioning isn't how it fitted within the story, but rather the story altogether. That could have been done by acknowledging some flaw in Iris (not necessarily through defeat, but through discussion with Cynthia) prompting Iris to actually rethink how she's been doing things, learn new things about Dragon pokémon that she didn't know before, and have Gablias teach Kibago Giga Impact or they could have done the other "lol let's have them fight each other and pile random abilities on Iris and Kibago in the most unbelievable fashion completely going against how we've portrayed them for 2 years just cause...". They went with the latter, it makes for what is in my opinion a very lackluster storyline.

  2. #107
    Not A Piece of Cake Bubble Frog's Avatar
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    Default re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Iris View Post
    [
    As I said above, I have no problem with a Pokémon learning a new move in battle, even a powerful one, if it stands on something. We knew Zuruggu could hold his own against this caliber of opponent, in this type of situation, it had grown steadily and worked to get its previous move.
    I doubt Zuruggu could "hold his own" against a fully grown Dragon-type. Zuruggu grew toward and earned nothing and was supercharged just so he could beat Yanakkie.

    The move itself wasn't a game changer and Zuruggu still had to defeat his opponent on his own merit.
    Zuruggu would have got Giga Impact'd and lost without learning the new move. Asspull indeed.

    Buizel learning Water Pulse in Sumomo's gym is another example of an extremely convenient but very well pulled off new move mid battle, because it stood on something. We knew Buizel could hold his own with his current moveset, that he was ready for this caliber of opponent, and when the battle turned south, he wouldn't give up and his established fighting spirit allowed him to pull through. Same as Zuruggu. Those are two situations where the new move didn't bother me because the foundations had been laid beforehand. In Kibago's case, there was no foundation for it learning Outrage or Giga Impact.
    Kibago learning Giga Impact showed Iris and his bond. When the battle went south, he wouldn't give up and his established relationship with Iris which connects back to her Dragon Master Goal and fighting spirit allowed him to give it all he had and learn Giga Impact and he showed despite losing. BTW, while I'm not complaining about the battle. Buoysel's Water Gun was overpowered by Aura Sphere, it is only thanks to learning Water Pulse that he was able to even out with Lucario.

    When was Kibago shown in an actual battle where it wasn't totally wrecked? Where it actually stood as equals against wild Pokémon or trainer pokémon.
    Vulgina uses Pluck and gets herself stuck in the ground. Zuruggu one-shots her with Hi Jump Kick. That's not equal, that just reeks of bad writing. Next appearance "boom" all ready and able to take out a fully evolved Yanakkie, and gets an ass pull Focus Blast from it all. Oh and survives many many many attacks. You're claiming this toward Kibago, despite Zuruggu being in the exact same boat with his SUPA AWESOMZ strongest physical and special fighting moves.


    Only against babies or canonically extremely weak Pokémon (Zuruggu and Monmen) was he shown to hold his own, in a controlled environment.
    You said that Kibago never ever held his own though. Kibago went up against a fully grown Tsunbear, and tried to win despite not landing any hits and get an even Dragon Rage out of the situation. Turtwig battled Gardenia's Turtwig but lost fairly quickly despite not "being ready", same thing with Satoshi battling Roark, not to mention Buneary battling Glameow, doesn't matter if he's "ready" or not. This episode was meant for him to train, training to make him into a stronger Pokemon. Why are you ignoring that?

    In BW066 and BW082, the last two episodes where Kibago was in a position to do something, it just ran around crying instead of showing it was able to fight, same he did against Tsunbear and Gobitto,
    Yes, let's attack the herd of Buffron that are trying to kill you and are chasing you in a clearly comedy scene. Oh, yes because Kibago totally should attack Dento in the Pokewood movie.


    because he's just not ready for a real battle. But instead of getting him ready through training, Kibago magically bypasses all of that and learns moves out of thin air to circumvent actually growing stronger.
    Zuruggu magically gained Focus Blast to save his tail feather from a Giga Impact, as well as endured everything Yanakkie threw his way. Magically bypassing all of that and going on to the next round and flawlessly beating Hiyakkie with ease.


    Still not seeing "the difference" in these two situations aside from one Pokemon belonging to Iris and the other belonging to Satoshi.

  3. #108
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    Default re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gym Leader Byron View Post
    I doubt Zuruggu could "hold his own" against a fully grown Dragon-type.
    Never pretended it could stand against Shirona's Gablias. But he could hold his own against a Vulgina and a Yanakkie and opponents of that caliber, i.e. trainer Pokémon in real battles and evolved wild Pokémon. We've gone over the differences between the two, they're all different situations in my opinion. I explained why. I look at the whole picture not just at one or two elements to form an opinion and then try to make a blanket rule based on that partial view. To me, every situation is a whole, that is unique at that point in time for that character. Some work, some don't.

    Kibago went up against a fully grown Tsunbear, and tried to win despite not landing any hits and get an even Dragon Rage out of the situation.
    It tried and failed utterly because he wasn't able to handle a Pokémon of that caliber. Same with Gobitto and pretty much every single Pokémon they've encountered that's not pre-development Zuruggu or pre-development Monmen. I'm not ignoring it, it's the basis of my argument.

    Turtwig battled Gardenia's Turtwig but lost fairly quickly despite not "being ready", same thing with Satoshi battling Roark, not to mention Buneary battling Glameow, doesn't matter if he's "ready" or not. This episode was meant for him to train, training to make him into a stronger Pokemon.
    Neither were shown not to be battle ready, both had wins under their belts, and after those defeats, they trained and got better, earning the rewards that comes with the training. Here, Kibago wasn't shown to be battle ready, didn't train, didn't fight, didn't do anything for over a year and gets a power up in reward. You cannot compare the two situations when they're drastically different.

    Yes, let's attack the herd of Buffron that are trying to kill you and are chasing you in a clearly comedy scene. Oh, yes because Kibago totally should attack Dento in the Pokewood movie.
    That's the point. Kibago was consistently portrayed as being helpless and hopeless, as not being able to handle battles, wild Pokémon, etc. It doesn't train, doesn't fight, it doesn't get better, despite it being Iris' main reason to be on this journey. For pretty any other character, this would be treated as a problem, as something to learn to fix through hard work, but not with Iris, she gets away with sitting on her hands and not doing jack because Kibago keeps magically mastering moves without effort and fluctuating in power levels when it's convenient to make Iris look good. Kibago could have learned Giga Impact in much more believable fashion, like simply being taught by Gablias hot to do it and actually working towards it. Right now, it feels like Iris is breezing through this, not putting effort, not knowing struggle in a storyline that was stated in show to revolve around Iris having to learn things and grow, while never giving her the opportunity to.

    I said my piece on this, so I'll bow out and let other people get their opinions in, but as far as I'm concerned, this episode was a setup for what's to come in season 2 and it didn't sell me on Iris, rather just felt like the writers were continuing in the same uninteresting and uncompelling child prodigy who can do no wrong and knows everything and gets rewarded for doing nothing story that I find very lackluster. I'm still not convinced Iris actually belongs on the main cast of Best Wishes because she gains nothing from the journey.

  4. #109
    Not A Piece of Cake Bubble Frog's Avatar
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    Default re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Iris View Post
    Never pretended it could stand against Shirona's Gablias. But he could hold his own against a Vulgina and a Yanakkie and opponents of that caliber, i.e. trainer Pokémon in real battles and evolved wild Pokémon. We've gone over the differences between the two, they're all different situations in my opinion. I explained why. I look at the whole picture not just at one or two elements to form an opinion and then try to make a blanket rule based on that partial view. To me, every situation is a whole, that is unique at that point in time for that character. Some work, some don't.
    Vulgina. Pluck. Luck. Unbelievable One-Shot HJK. Zuruggu's Focus Blast saved him. End of story.

    It tried and failed utterly because he wasn't able to handle a Pokémon of that caliber. Same with Gobitto and pretty much every single Pokémon they've encountered that's not pre-development Zuruggu or pre-development Monmen. I'm not ignoring it, it's the basis of my argument.
    Zuruggu didn't handle Vulgina, he one-shot her with one HJK because she got stuck in the ground. Pokabu handled Zuruzukin, that's "handling" Zuruggu handled nothing. Then next appearance beat Yanakkie with the help of Focus Blast. He was going to get creamed by Giga Impact otherwise. These are the facts.

    Neither were shown not to be battle ready, both had wins under their belts, and after those defeats, they trained and got better, earning the rewards that comes with the training. Here, Kibago wasn't shown to be battle ready, didn't train, didn't fight, didn't do anything for over a year and gets a power up in reward. You cannot compare the two situations when they're drastically different.
    Yeah and Kibago trained against Shirona's Dragon-type, Iris specifically did it for "Dragon Master" reasons. Kibago has shown in the past he's more then willing to battle and perfectly ready, willing, and able. It's the same shit, except Kibago got a well deserved loss compared to Zuruggu who won by the skin of his tail.

    That's the point Kibago betrayed as being helpless and hopeless, as not being able to handle battles, wild Pokémon, etc. It doesn't train, doesn't fight, it doesn't get better, despite it being Iris' main reason to be on this journey.
    If you're comparing comedy situations to other comedy situations(Really the Movie Showdown episode?). Kibago had no problem being independent and Dragon Raging Gochimu in an attempt to retrieve Zuruggu. Yeah, cause Zuruggu trains and battled so much before being handed his two wins in the Donamite, despite not being able to aim well with Focus Blast gained a win from Hachiku. Yeah.

    For pretty any other character, this would be treated as a problem, as something to learn to fix through hard work, but not with Iris, she gets away with sitting on her hands and not doing jack because Kibago keeps magically mastering moves without effort and fluctuating in power levels when it's convenient to make Iris look good.
    Lol. Rock Tomb. Rock Sllide. Shooti. Focus Blast.

    Kibago could have learned Giga Impact in much more believable fashion, like simply being taught by Gablias hot to do it and actually working towards it. Right now, it feels like Iris is breezing through this, not putting effort, not knowing struggle in a storyline that was stated in show to revolve around Iris having to learn things and grow, while never giving her the opportunity to.
    Zuruggu should have learned Focus Blast in a more believable fashion, like simply being taught by Doryuuzu how to do it and actually working toward it. Also Dragon Rage says hi.

  5. #110
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    Default re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Human View Post
    @Queen Cynthia;
    So answer me this question now. How is it "disrespectful, insulting and, above all, illogical!" to the fearless Cynthia when she was only doing her job as a Champion? To inspire, strengthen and teach trainers and their Pokemon to always train hard to achieve their goals?

    For someone who says that they understand the mystifying Cynthia, you sure seem to miss the purpose of her actions. I think that I understand her more than you do.
    This post simply deserves these 15 likes (including mine), it clearly stated how a Pokemon Champion should think and what a Pokemon Champion should do as they are at the Top of All Trainers. They are simply not any CotD. Even Steven only appeared once, if Ash have challenged him, he will still do the same as Cynthia without doubt, he will not crush Ash's Pokemon with his Metagross immediately. Or Lance and his Dragonite too.

    As a Champion, one can actually share experience with other Trainers, not being selfish and tell everyone to f*** off. Cynthia is certainly a kind hearted person, she will share her experience, even the one who asked for advise is someone like Paul.

    She did her job better than she must, there is no argue that she is a good Trainer and suitable Champion for a good Region like Sinnoh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gym Leader Byron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Iris View Post
    Kibago could have learned Giga Impact in much more believable fashion, like simply being taught by Gablias hot to do it and actually working towards it. Right now, it feels like Iris is breezing through this, not putting effort, not knowing struggle in a storyline that was stated in show to revolve around Iris having to learn things and grow, while never giving her the opportunity to.
    Zuruggu should have learned Focus Blast in a more believable fashion, like simply being taught by Doryuuzu how to do it and actually working toward it. Also Dragon Rage says hi.
    We don't know how Dragon Type Pokemon's communicate with each others. As we can see in DP, Cynthia's Garchomp is a master of Giga Impact as the narrator of the battle of her and Lucian stated that Giga Impact was her Garchomp's siganature move.

    It is possible that Garchomp actually taught Kibago Giga Impact through a way that Dragon Types communicate with each other.

    But I do agree that they should make it seem more logic by actually letting Doryuuzu teach Zuruggu Focus Blast and Garchomp teaching Kibago Giga Impact with a way that will convince the audiences.
    Last edited by Hellion; 25th June 2012 at 09:54 AM.

  6. #111
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    Default re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

    I would've loved it if Iris called Cynthia a "kodomo ne".

    They could've done it too when Cynthia went all "torch-bearer" with that Ice Cream.
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    Default re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Queen Cynthia View Post
    I've already said it but it I'll say it again: I think that Cynthia was used as a mere plot device and just like @Madame Pika mentioned, they "wasted" the most precious and best character of the whole series for a mediocre, unnecessary and poorly written episode for which they could have used any other trainer as well.
    Just imagine! The Queen of Pokemon used as a mere "sparring partner" for a little kid and their most wonderful Pokemon hit by a terribly overpowered little Axew... I don't see how this is not disrespectful and even more so, I don't see how you could consider that as an appropriate behavior towards the Champion.
    I think it was much more than that.

    Shirona was someone who Iris obviously idolized, and wanted to battle and learn from. It may have been coincidental that Kibago learned a new move as a result (like you've said, that could have happened in a battle with anyone) but this battle, however mis-matched, was important to Iris because of who it was up against. She knew there was no way she was going to beat her Gaburias, but you don't get the chance to battle against a champion, especially one that you admire every day, but it certainly doesn't hurt to give it your all so Shirona knows what she has to work with here. Like it was already said, Shirona did what she was meant to do as champion: inspire someone. The battle wasn't about winning or losing, it was about learning. While Iris was very clearly overpowered, she still did her best. I don't think Shirona was wasting her time at all by battling her, she was helping her to grow and learn as a trainer. While Shirona was a plot device, I wouldn't call it a waste at all because of the outcome it had for Iris and Kibago, and it meant more to her because it was the result of learning from someone she admired.



  8. #113
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    Default re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

    @Dogasu Did Cynthia explain how the World Tournament works? As in, what happens after the Junior Cup? What is the point of the tournament as a whole?

  9. #114
    ロケット団よ永遠 Dogasu's Avatar Retired Staff
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    Default re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

    Everyone, the personal attacks stop now. You can disagree with each other's opinions without resorting to name-calling and petty attacks.

    Also, @Silktree, no, she did not. She just said that the winner gets a chance to battle Adeku. She didn't go into any details at all.
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    Default re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    Everyone, the personal attacks stop now. You can disagree with each other's opinions without resorting to name-calling and petty attacks.

    Also, @Silktree, no, she did not. She just said that the winner gets a chance to battle Adeku. She didn't go into any details at all.
    Will she be entering the tournament?

  11. #116
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    Default re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

    In addition to what Dogasu has said, please try not to get carried away with asserting your opinion to be superior to somebody else's just because you are a fan of something. Likewise, please do not interpret someone disagreeing with your point of view as a personal attack.

  12. #117
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    Default re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

    I still think this episode was great overall, a nice set-up for the hopefully lovely things that the season will come with in the near future, although as I just rewatched the episode there was one thing that came to my mind, and that was how amazingly little impact the few seconds at the end with Dawn and Piplup had on me.

    Sure, Dawn has always been my least preferable female companion, but I never really hated her (just a little bit, maybe), and even though it was kinda (that's all you'll get from me) nice seeing her at the end I still didn't smile, or really feel at all happy inside at all. Of course, I am currently at the DP saga in my rewatch of the whole series, so seeing Dawn there could be the reason to why not seeing her in BW was really that exciting, but still. It was quite the letdown, as I was hoping for to feel just slightly happy seeing her again, but unfortunately, no. of course that ugly little piece of blue shit was standing right beside her, which could've been the cause to why I didn't smile.

    When May made her return at the end of ''Enter The Contest Master - Wallace!'', with hardly only five seconds, I was completely overwhelmed. Tears were rolling down my cheeks, without seeming to have a stop. Of course, I was completely aware of her making a return in that episode, and thought that it wouldn't have such an amazing impact as it did have on me, since I felt mentally prepared, but still... seeing her again was so absolutely amazing, and I fully realized how much I had missed her. It was just so amazing to see her again. She is one of my favorite characters, so my reaction to her return shouldn't have been too surprising, but considering how long Dawn has been in the series I was expecting a somewhat of an overwhelming reaction to seeing her again too, but that didn't seem to be the case.

    I'm still looking forward for her to join the BW Trio though, that ought to be interesting. I can't wait to see her and Iris interacting, there's just so much potential laying there, just waiting to explode. The differences in their personality are surely going to make it so amazingly amusing. Sure, there is potential for Dawn/Cilan too, but as they are both quite alike, it won't be as amusing as the interactions between Dawn/Iris, just maybe an exchange of some sparkles. However, as Dento's whole character is built up from pure awesomeness and epicness, he might actually considering sharing some to Dawn. making her slightly more tolerable. I mean, it's way more fun watching two people with opposite personalites interactiong than two that are pretty much the same, right? Or, that could just be me. I don't really see the two of them to hate each other, that's highly implausible thanks to Dawn's boring and way too optimistic personality. That'd be so OOC for her. On the contrary, it wouldn't be so OOC on Iris' case, but a one-sided hatred would be pretty boring, but we'll see.

    If the writers do succed in making her amusing thanks to the interactions between her and Iris, I might just change my view of her... Even though I highly doubt it, there's still a chance for me to actually take a somewhat liking to her. why isn't May here instead?
    Last edited by Chiplet; 26th June 2012 at 04:33 PM.

  13. #118
    The Sworn Brothers Adyniz's Avatar Archives StaffBulbapedia Staff
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    Default re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

    TV Tokyo:
    Pocket Monsters Best Wishes!: 6.6% (June 21; BW085)

  14. #119
    Registered User Hellwarden's Avatar
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    Default re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Adyniz View Post
    TV Tokyo:
    Pocket Monsters Best Wishes!: 6.6% (June 21; BW085)
    Not bad. Just hope it can stay that way.

    If you don't mind me asking, where did you that data?

  15. #120
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    Default re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellwarden View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Adyniz View Post
    TV Tokyo:
    Pocket Monsters Best Wishes!: 6.6% (June 21; BW085)
    Not bad. Just hope it can stay that way.

    If you don't mind me asking, where did you that data?
    2ch users usually post ratings stats within one or two weeks after an episode's airing.

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