BW 083-084 "Fierce Fighting at Tachiwaki Gym! VS Homika!!" Review Thread

[Wyvernphlare]

@Geodude; Cept the thing is Energy doesn't lower sp def it has a CHANCE of lowering sp def. And since there is no indicator visual wise I have to question why does he mention it now is there something we are missing yet Cilan knows how can he tell

[Geodude]

But we don't know what that visual effect IS, so how do you know it wasn't there?

[Wyvernphlare]

But we don't know what that visual effect IS, so how do you know it wasn't there?

Well they should have made it obvious. It's still annoying

[Geodude]

Think about it though: the characters themselves have a completely different perspective on their world than we do, since they're actually in it. Think about how many times Brock, Dawn, or others talked about things like how well-groomed a Pokemon's fur looks, when the Pokemon in question looks just like any other to us. It also brings to mind the Pokethlon episode when even Ash could tell that the CotD's Snorlax was tired from too much training just by looking at it, when it was less apparent to us as viewers. Even Cilan's chosen career revolves around him noticing little traits and behaviors and things that others might not pick up on.

[Wyvernphlare]

How does that keep it from being annoying as hell?

[Geodude]

How does that keep it from being annoying as hell?

It only is if you think it is. I have no problem with it.

[Wyvernphlare]

It would be nice to know something without someone having to tell us ever heard of show not tell

[DynoStretch]

1. How is it out of character when he at first said he wanted an even 3-on-3? He only agreed to 6-on-3 once Roxie insisted.
2. Did you even watch the episode? Clearly if it was 3-on-3 Ash would've lost. And that was probably the point. Seems evident to me during the scene where Ash questions himself during the battle.

1. The fact that he gave in was OoC. He should had been insistent to make it a fair fight, and if not, he can just take his business elsewhere. Trip's badge case showed us there are other gyms in Unova.

2. If he lost a 3-on-3, then he would had done what he always does when he loses a gym, he trains more, comes back and sticks it to her when he's stronger.

Also, Ash questioning his current strength is meaningless as he missed his "wake-up calls" throughout this entire region, like when he was 5-2'd in his second battle with Trip, then despite his vow to get stronger, still got curb-stomped by Lenora because he didn't train hard enough.

[Geodude]

1. The fact that he gave in was OoC. He should had been insistent to make it a fair fight, and if not, he can just take his business elsewhere.

I disagree. An unfair fight would be, say, if it was 6-on-3 because Homika was lazy or indifferent. But as she herself pointed out, the rules are up to her, so a fair fight would be anything within those rules. We've already seen other gyms with variations on the normal rules. Another thing, one of her band members said something like "here she goes again with her whims" when she gave Pignite that Pecha Berry. Offering a 6-on-3 battle and healing the opponent's status condition seems overconfident, and certainly would've been if Ash had an easier time with the victory. But as it turned out she had room for plenty of confidence, simply because she was good enough. She would've looked really stupid if Ash had curbstomped her, but it was down to the wire. Sure it was risky, but it seems to be part of her character. I get the idea she likes that kind of thing. The whole punk band and rowdy nightclub thing, and the band member's comment, indicates that she's a bit of a thrill-seeker.

To put it another way, as somebody else probably already said: The 6-on-3 actually made it a fair fight, considering the result.

[HumanDawn]

1. The fact that he gave in was OoC. He should had been insistent to make it a fair fight, and if not, he can just take his business elsewhere.

I disagree. An unfair fight would be, say, if it was 6-on-3 because Homika was lazy or indifferent. But as she herself pointed out, the rules are up to her, so a fair fight would be anything within those rules. Another thing, one of her band members said something like "here she goes again with her whims" when she gave Pignite that Pecha Berry. Offering a 6-on-3 battle and healing the opponent's status condition seems overconfident, and certainly would've been if Ash had an easier time with the victory. But as it turned out she had room for plenty of confidence, simply because she was good enough. She would've looked really stupid if Ash had curbstomped her, but it was down to the wire. Sure it was risky, but it seems to be part of her character. I get the idea she likes that kind of thing. The whole punk band and rowdy nightclub thing, and the band member's comment, indicates that she's a bit of a thrill-seeker.

To add on, Ash is the type of person who wants to prove people wrong. Roxie was overconfident, somebody needed to change her ways, so Ash stepped in. It would be totally OoC of Ash if he didn't battle her to make her lose her overconfidence. Leaving to do business elsewhere? That's not the Ash I know and support!

[DynoStretch]

Ah-ha! So it is a two-on-one duel is it? Fine, I accept your challenge, engarde!

An unfair fight would be, say, if it was 6-on-3 because Homika was lazy or indifferent. But as she herself pointed out, the rules are up to her, so a fair fight would be anything within those rules.

She's not a good gym leader if she just hands out badges to people who don't deserve it, and Ash clearly didn't deserve it by having to win under such a handicap. This felt like a pity badge, like the ones Ash often got throughout Kanto.

But as it turned out she had room for plenty of confidence, simply because she was good enough. She would've looked really stupid if Ash had curbstomped her, but it was down to the wire.

And there lies the biggest problem with the battle. Roxie was just simply too overpowered. I understand she's a gym leader and all, but this was too excessive. The Pecha Berry thing only cemented it further. If Ash had managed to beat her three Pokemon with just three of his own, then it would had proven her egotism in the wrong and made her think differently about her attitude. We constantly see characters in this series who act over-confident and end up being proven wrong and humiliated, usually when an Elite Four member shows up to curbstomp them. Even the one-sided rivals get served a dish of humble pie eventually. Roxie however, is ridiculously overconfident, overpowered, and shown to be in the right, and for some reason she doesn't have to learn anything.

To add on, Ash is the type of person who wants to prove people wrong. Roxie was overconfident, somebody needed to change her ways, so Ash stepped in. It would be totally OoC of Ash if he didn't battle her to make her lose her overconfidence. Leaving to do business elsewhere? That's not the Ash I know and support!

Right, but in the end he got curbstomped, showing she's right about being so strong she can brag about it and give her opponents unfair handicaps. He shouldn't have accepted the badge, and should only came back when he was ready to win a fair 3-on-3.

[Geodude]

How did Ash get curbstomped? A curbstomp would've been a 6-0 or 6-1 win.

To me, a narrow victory from either side indicates a fair battle.

[Wyvernphlare]

Cept Homika shouldn't have been that strong. The fact that Ash wasn't even phased by how poorly he did is another thing. Why was he happy he looked like a jackass? Homika could still take pride in fact that she almost KO'd Ash's entire team.

[Geodude]

Cept Homika shouldn't have been that strong.

Why not?

The fact that Ash wasn't even phased by how poorly he did is another thing.

Yes, he clearly was. It was his friends' cheering that gave him the encouragement he needed.

[Wyvernphlare]

She's weak in her game and it makes Ash look unprepared for the league. Also with the exception of Mewtwo gym leader were shown to be defeatable by rookies

That's different I mean after the battle. He was happy to win not embarrassed by his lack luster performance.