REVIEW: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread - Page 8

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Thread: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

  1. #106
    Registered User Reivaxe's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    First off, can someone PM me a link to see this episode? The places I normally go don't have it for some reason. :/

    As for what I have seen it amuses me that people are in an outrage over this. Calling Iris's wins and development "cheap/ lucky" just because she used her brain instead of falling ass backwards into a win by just ignoring types and such. Axew seems like it was luck ... but that kind of luck is a common place staple in the series and has been used by Ash many times.

    Very happy with Iris getting the win! Its funny ... I remember people thinking that she would be out by the 2nd or 1st round when this started and now she stands there like a boss.

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    覚えてる? CommanderPigg's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    Okay, people. I know that the episode isn't out on the 'net yet, I'm pretty anxious about it too. But please don't ask for links on the board! Asking for them is against the rules. (just be patient, they usually come out sooner or later...)

    And quite honestly, if this is what you call outrage the anime section hasn't devoured your soul yet :P So try to limit the talk about people complaining or rejoicing. Keep the fandom out of it.

    "seasons change, people change"

  3. #108
    ポケモン Tsutarja's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Reivaxe View Post
    As for what I have seen it amuses me that people are in an outrage over this. Calling Iris's wins and development "cheap/ lucky" just because she used her brain instead of falling ass backwards into a win by just ignoring types and such. Axew seems like it was luck ... but that kind of luck is a common place staple in the series and has been used by Ash many times.
    Well if you look at the tournament in general, things really did go in Iris' favor. I do agree that Kibago got just lucky as I explained my stance on his sudden development before but I do think that Emonga's sudden obedience without even the trace of the old, mischievous Emonga was unbelievable. I just can't understand how Emonga would listen to Iris just because Iris asked her nicely. That was the only part of the tournament that bothered even if the Emonga VS Dageki battle turned out to be great and strategical from Iris' side.

    All things considered, it's pretty understandable that the fandom is complaining about the outcome but I can't really bring myself to do the same simply because Iris finally got some focus. I wouldn't call it bad/poor writing but I wouldn't call it excellent writing either. Eh, I'm just happy Iris got screentime and win - it makes me happy as a fan regardless of how the show is written.


    Also, here's the Rocket dialogue translated by Adamant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamant
    *The Rockets are studying a map*
    Musashi (Jessie): We are here. The Musical Hall is here.
    Kojiro (James): The Subway Station is here, and the drawbridge is here.
    Nyarth (Meowth): The plan is already in its final stage. There's one more trump card needed for absolute perfection, though.
    Musashi (Jessie): One more trump card? What do you mean?
    Nyarth (Meowth): Just leave it to me.
    Is Pikachu the trump card?
    Last edited by Tsutarja; 12th August 2011 at 03:47 AM.

  4. #109
    Seems legit Baron Dante's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    @Tsutarja: I still think the whole Emolga thing is more about how Emolga gets pretty discouraged if Attract doesn't work.

    But, as these are single battles, she couldn't Volt Switch out, so there was not much of a choice for Emo. So, it battled.


    Then about this one:

    People that are seeing outrage on the forums... look at the episode, I believe the outrage was there with Axew.

    But, I don't see how Iris winning "without issues" is a bad thing. The series has been going for like 15 years, and this is the first time an main caster has won with ease anything remarkable. I would call it just natural, that sooner or later, things would tip directly to someones favor.


    You know what would have been hilariously awesome for a tournament type thing like this? That before they actually made all these episodes, they would honset-to-goodness taken a randomizer and see what matches to do. It could have created much more interesting match-ups. (Though, we saw this kinda when all rival battles were avoided. -.-)

  5. #110
    Easy listening Masurao's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    Having a character win like they did makes them largely un-compelling. Pokemon's quirks conveniently get dropped at the opportune moment after having been established before hand with no sign of change. Pokemon learning new, extremely powerful moves...so they could win, when the Pokemon has been established as weak beforehand. Then we have the finals were the writers set it, in a way were one character has no possible way to win whatsoever realistically by axing off half of their move-set, and putting them at a severe disadvantage. It's it's just sloppy writing.
    Last edited by Masurao; 12th August 2011 at 09:32 AM.
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  6. #111
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    I have to agree with @Masurao, at least in regards to Emolga. I still don't think Axew learning a new move is that big of a deal, since we've seen Pokemon learn new moves in battle before, but I don't think the writers should have had Emolga listen so easily. It was kind of baffling how it didn't shown at least a tiny bit of its personality when Iris sent it out... Meh. I was thinking she would have at least bribed it with apples or something, but to simply battle freely like that when it usually doesn't want to, I dunno... I'd be kidding myself if I said that was okay. But whatever, the tournament's over, and no matter how much it may have sucked, it can't be changed now. I think it'd be funny if Emolga started acting the same way it did before the tourney again though lol. That'd just be so ironic and...just meh.

  7. #112
    Registered User WatcherMark's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Dante View Post
    @TsutarjaBut, as these are single battles, she couldn't Volt Switch out, so there was not much of a choice for Emo. So, it battled.
    Competing in a single battle didn't stop Emolga from switching out and screwing Iris over during the Eindoak tournament....

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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    I am REALLY disappointed.

    I thought I was in for the first really intense battle of the series (Ash VS Iris) but two things ruined it:

    - Way too much talking during the battle (Cilan even beats Brock at this... holy shit)
    - The amount of stock footage used was just too much - like, half the battle was made up of older stuff and that just ruins all the fun. We lose out on so much Tamagawa potential :/

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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kairyu View Post

    I thought I was in for the first really intense battle of the series (Ash VS Iris) but two things ruined it:

    - Way too much talking during the battle (Cilan even beats Brock at this... holy shit)
    - The amount of stock footage used was just too much - like, half the battle was made up of older stuff and that just ruins all the fun. We lose out on so much Tamagawa potential :/
    Mm, that's generally how I feel about the final bout too.
    I think I said so during last episode's review thread, that while Dent's (and Cabernet's) Tasting Time shtick can indeed be pretty funny, there's a time and a place for that kind of thing. I suppose in a sense it does beat the tired old 'blah-blah-blah this type is weak/strong against that type" banter, but it's just way too lengthy to forgive it for being less boring.

    And yeah, they really did milk the stock footage in this one, which I thought was quite surprising given who they got to direct. Granted, it's been a pretty big issue with BW on the whole, but still...

  10. #115
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    Axew vs Golett

    Axew learned a new move. For anyone who complains about it being "cheap" think about all the times another Pokemon learns a new move or evolves in the heat of battle. It happens a lot. However, Axew is still a baby so I can understand who has little experience so I can understand why some people are wondering how it managed to pull off a victory.

    Excadrill vs Pikachu

    This battle proves that not using type advantages can seriously screw you over in a battle. As much as I like the underdog story of a Pokemon defeating a Pokemon that has an advantage over it, it gets stale. Ash should have used Palpitoad since it would have given him a better footing.


    The episode was interesting but I'm glad the Don Battle Tourney is over. Hopefully all this complaining will die down soon.

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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    Say, here's something that seems to have slipped under the radar;
    Sound effects.
    Yeah, yeah, I know. But I was watching the episode just moments ago, and it was difficult not to notice that there were an awful lot of new sfx used here. It wasn't just for battle moves either, even the more 'mundane' stuff such as pokeball throwing and those zipping, colorful backgrounds got the same treatment. I thought it was really cool to see them experimenting with it, even if it's an element of the show that most of us probably don't consciously pay attention to. The battles were already nicely animated, but it really helped give them that extra 'pop', imo.

    IIRC, they tried something similar to this waaaay back in Houen with the Mawile ep, but it didn't stick. Hopefully they keep it up this time around.
    Last edited by Grave-E; 12th August 2011 at 03:58 PM.

  12. #117
    ポケモン Tsutarja's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    Having re-watched the episode, I can say that Pikachu vs Doryuuzu was pretty much even. If it weren't for the typing advantage, Ash would have surely won this. The outcome at the end was great with Don George lifting their hands up in the air as if they were both winners. I also like how Iris didn't call Ash a kid after beating him as people assumed she would. The finale was a fair and a well-written battle, no matter how you look at it I've enjoyed it - if only it had been longer though. :<

    Oh, and I loved how Iris spoke to her folks in the Dragon Village when she was interviewed. :D

  13. #118
    Child of the Atom Hellion's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    Let's review this trainwreck! :P

    Good points

    + Dent: Sooooooo much. I loved his characterization in this episode. I loved how he was vain because there was a camera and that he was a bit sweet. Also, love the sommelier focus.

    + Cabernet: I liked the characterization and development for her in this episode. We saw doubt, we saw a dent in her armor (lame pun XD). We saw the rivalry and relationship evolve and morph. I loved it, I really feel this is one of the more compelling storyline of Best Wishes so far.

    + Dent and Cabernet doing the Team Sommelier's motto: IT WAS MAGICAL, I CRIED... : P Cabernet, put down that glass of bubbly you alcoholic freak. XD

    Lukewarm points

    - Luke (no pun intended): The writers kept the personality he had last episode, but I kinda wish we had more definite idea of where they were going with his character. Is he collecting badges?

    - Bel: Really didn't like that the writers insist on writing her in a zoruacentric perspective, but she was actually funny at times.

    Bad points (and there's a loooot of them...)

    - Kibago v Gobitto battle: It was cheap. How cheap? Wal Mart wishes their prices were this cheap. :P Ultimately, it was cheap because the writers showed Iris being totally moronic in calling a scratch attack against a ghost type when we see Zorua on the sidelines, so she knows this isn't Zorua. We see Luke actually being very good, coming up with different tactics to counter Kibago's attacks. Kibago is shown to not be able to handle an opponent of that caliber, is shown to not be able to handle more than 2 attacks without being tired and barely able to move, which just goes to show Kibago hasn't progressed since his battle with Tsunbear, that Iris hasn't been working with him at all and then poof. And then poof, magically Kibago learns Outrage, the most powerful physical Dragon attack, has no control problems with it, totally owns Gobitto without Iris having to come up with anything. It wasn't earned, it was a hollow victory much like her two Emonga wins and...

    - Doryuuzu v Pikachu battle: Again, it was cheap. I agree that the matchup didn't favor Satoshi, but the Satoshi has actually shown to be able to overcome that by thinking outside the box, using original strategies and the environment, which the writers did do in this battle. I disagree a bit with those who say that the writers made it easy for Iris by having Satoshi carry the idiot ball since Satoshi did that spin thing to raise Iron Tail's power. Satoshi was consitant with his usual characterization. He has a knack for finding original ways to use his pokémon's attack and finding solutions to win battles... except he didn't. Therein lies the cheapness. Much like the Kibago match, Iris wasn't thinking of any strategy, wasn't really trying to do anything different, wasn't doing anything but calling out attacks after attacks and yet, she wins with ease. It just makes it seem like even if Satoshi, with his strongest and oldest pokémon, comes up with good strategies and original moves, she doesn't even have to try to beat him. There's no struggle, no nothing. It's just bad storytelling.

    - Iris: As a character beyond the two cheapfests was a low point in this episode. She wasn't interesting in the least. Both her battles just left me cold and didn't instill any emotion in me, her interactions were dull... she just isn't compelling to watch. This is a journey shonen anime, the whole point is to show characters grow through the journey, be confronted, struggle, change, work hard... Iris doesn't do any of that, so why is she on a journey if there's nothing for her to gain from it since she's already apparantly super good at everything. The writers really haven't justified Iris' presence on the main cast.

    - Langley: Once again, she felt like Iris's prop and her personality and likeability took a nosedive because of it. She was boring bitch who seemed there to be jealous of Iris' magnificence... meh.

    - Gamagaru: Two seconds battle and it's not even there at dinner time where the writers could have shown some personality for Gamagaru, have him interact with other pokémon... but no...

    - Kenyan: Dull. period.

    Overall, it wasn't a horrible episode, the art was good, though a lot of recycled animation, but really, as I was watching it and I felt nothing. This is an arc, the finals of a tournament... it supposed to be uplifting, exciting, as the audience, I'm supposed to feel invested in this but... the lack of buildup and the lack of compelling personality from all finalists and semifinalists and their pokémon really left the arc down and made it feel pointless and uncompelling.
    Shinneth and Trainer Gabriel like this.

  14. #119
    Not even my final form GreatLiver's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    End of eh tournament is eh.

    I'm more pissed about the lack of Palpitoad than anything. One of my favorite of Ash's pokemon at the moment, and seeing it do just about jack shit was great. Pikachu didn't need to be in this tournament. Not a huge fan of Sewaddle or Roggenrola, but having one of them in this may have actually been an opportunity for them to get characterization.

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    MEGA F'ING AMPHAROS!!! Ampharos King's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    My main issue with this episode was that everybody talked too much at the wrong times.

    Why did Axew win against Golett as quickly as it did? Why did it take Excadrill less than five minutes to defeat Pikachu in a single battle? Could we say that more than half of this episode was spent entirely on character interactions that some of us take for granted?

    It was great that Langley did not speak up as often as she did in past episodes during this episode. She mentioned her disdain for Iris not sending out Axew, a Dragon-Type, in the final round. She also explained Axew's newest move, Outrage, to the rest of the spectators, as well as the move's drawbacks to the user. Through these short remarks, we got a clear glimpse of who Langley was, her position as a foil to Iris's character, and her general knowledge and disdain of the Dragon-Type in general. Her input in the middle of this battle didn't feel like it was purposely filling up time.

    Unfortunately, a great bulk of the episode was spent focusing on Bianca obsessing over Zorua, Luke scolding Bianca for holding his camera to record Zorua's movements, Cilan and Burgundy "tasting" the flavors of the pokemon competing in battles, Burgundy scolding Cilan for giving his opinion, etc. This was supposed to be the last episode of a big tournament/story arc, and more than half of that time alotted was spent "fleshing out" specific characters.

    When they have constructed this tournament, the writers focused more than 70% of their time contemplating how certain characters, like Bianca and Kenyan, can interact with other important characters. In retrospect, Luke and Zorua's presence felt like that missing link that allowed Bianca and Langley, or Bianca and Iris, to interact with one another on a more personal level than they would have if that was absent. I felt that this was the reason why Luke, a character who appeared very recently in this series, advanced to the semifinals; whereas Trip (whom we all expected to have the skill and arsenal to do so) did not. Trip's presence as a competitor in this tournament was largely unnecessary to this formula.

    While many favor multi-dimensional characters interacting with others in unique and interesting ways, there is a big drawback if this is simultaneously taking place during a competition. Certain battles in this tournament resolved faster than they should have because there was a limit to how much they can showcase in each episode. In other words, the writers sacrificed lengthening certain battles, such as Axew VS Golett or Minccino VS Zebstrika, in order to spend a greater amount of time focusing on these character interactions. One could argue for better paced battles and also for more character interaction. Unfortunately, it does not work this way: it's a two-way street here.

    I felt that too many characters were involved in this tournament to begin with. The writers were forced to spend a great deal of this time balancing out different character interactions with one another. This anime has proven time and time again that battle execution takes a secondary role over character development and social interactions. Sadly, this tournament was disappointing for those who simply wanted to see battles between certain characters take place.

    Individually, I respect and admire each and every character who competed in this tournament. Bringing them all together like this was a blessing at first, especially since most of these characters were only featured for one episode at a time. However, this so-called "blessing" of a tournament/story arc turned into a double-edged sword for those who prefer a competitive battling environment. Since 70% of this story arc was focused on character interaction, it felt repetitive seeing the same characters interacting in nearly the same fashion time and time again. Too much of a "good thing" (i.e. Bianca obsessing over Luke's Zorua) is bad.

    This tournament's execution might have been different if Luke and Zorua were not included at all. If it weren't for Zorua, perhaps Bianca would not have strayed off as often as she did? If it weren't for Zorua, perhaps Iris and Langley would have argued less over their childish feud?

    At the end of the day, we did receive a fair amount of great battles in this tournament. Some of the anime's best artists and writers worked on producing these episodes so we should be thankful for this much. Personally, I am not a big fan of character interaction unless we get continuity out of it, and most of the character interaction in this story arc stemmed from a Zorua that had only been introduced a few episodes earlier. Will Luke and Zorua make appearances in future episodes to justify how much time was spent on their appearances? Will Bianca obtain a Zorua to justify this character "butting in" often during this story arc? We don't know right now.

    We'll get more development from these characters individually as time progresses. This tournament left a bitter aftertaste in my mouth for certain reasons, but I'll take the positives with the negatives on this one. I am glad that the Don Battle is finally over and the anime can finally get back on track.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    Ultimately, it was cheap because the writers showed Iris being totally moronic in calling a scratch attack against a ghost type when we see Zorua on the sidelines, so she knows this isn't Zorua.
    The writers forgot to mention the obligatory "Normal-type attacks do not affect Ghost-types" ruling in BW thus far. It had nothing to do with Zorua. The writers just wanted Cilan to explain the battles as they happen.

    The same might apply in the case of Pikachu using electric-type attacks against a Ground-type.

    The main issue here is that the writers feel a need to explain just about everything there is to a battle, and especially the most basic issues like type compatibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    - Gamagaru: Two seconds battle and it's not even there at dinner time where the writers could have shown some personality for Gamagaru, have him interact with other pokémon... but no...
    Pikachu, Axew, Golett, and Zorua were the only pokemon who were featured in that scene. There was very little "interaction between pokemon" going on. It was simply Pikachu and Axew, who were already outside their Poke Balls, being given food by Cilan as usual. Golett and Zorua also tagged alongside Luke outside their balls as they usually would.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    - Kenyan: Dull. period.
    Stephan interacted with the connoisseurs a great deal during this episode. He displayed a lot of interest in what Cilan had to say during this episode, but also had to endure Burgundy's criticism for the same reason.

    Stephan may exhibit very little personality, but his mellowness greatly contrasts with the connoisseurs' expressive mannerisms.
    Last edited by Ampharos King; 12th August 2011 at 05:37 PM.
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