REVIEW: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread - Page 3

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Thread: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

  1. #31
    XXXXXXXXXX Dragon Char's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    Pikachu can learn 3 different Fighting moves(Brick Break, Rock Smash, and Reversal), and Dig. Those are the only things that he can learn and still hurt Excadrill.
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Samurott View Post
    Pikachu can learn 3 different Fighting moves(Brick Break, Rock Smash, and Reversal), and Dig. Those are the only things that he can learn and still hurt Excadrill.
    Excadrill's primary type is Ground and is the one Ash has to deal with. (And this applies to other Ground Pokemon as well...)

    Steel isn't even Super Effective.

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    Ook ook! Eek eek! MonkeyBoy210's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    YES! I knew Excadrill would win! I'm glad Iris won the tournament. Ash deserves to lose after ordering Pikachu to use Thunderbolt on a Pokemon he knows is immune to electric attacks.

    And seriously what happened with Cilan and Burgundy!? They're doing this motto and they seem to be acting much more friendly towards eachother.
    Last edited by MonkeyBoy210; 11th August 2011 at 08:19 AM.
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    Gonna be a tl;dr Master! Shinneth's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    I don't think people are surprised by Ash losing so much as they're dumbstruck that they'd just orchestrate this entire tournament to work in Iris' favor from beginning to end. That's just... really not at all like this anime to do that. If the protagonists win anything major, they endure major struggles, learn something important down the road that usually aids them to win even if they don't know it will at that time... it's Storytelling 101 that if you want a compelling arc where your protagonist wins, you make it compelling by making it difficult for the protagonist every single step of the way. That's the way it's been done for years for every single protagonist.

    A lot of the shock here isn't just from Iris beating Ash; it's that she did so with all the odds stacked in her favor. Consequently, the formula's been betrayed and they end the tournament with a heinously one-sided battle that had a foregone conclusion if you go by logic alone. The Ash-being-the-underdog factor was literally the only thing implementing suspense in this match-up. Throughout the tourney Iris was granted convenient plot twists that worked to her and her Pokemon's favor, many of which were shoehorned in at the last second.

    So yeah, the win itself was legitimate, but it was still an undeserved victory and a horribly-executed arc, which is why not everyone's going to be ecstatic over how this turned out.

    But it's all said and done now, and thank god this is over with. This whole arc's just made me feel dirty inside.
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  5. #35
    Easy listening Masurao's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos King View Post
    It was understandable though because the writers decided to have Pikachu battle against a Ground-type that also resists Normal and Steel-type attacks. Now Pikachu needs to know an attack that can counter Ground-types, but will that ever happen? I don't know.
    It would have been nice to see Ash not restricted so much though. Even though Excadrill, and Pikachu seemed matched for a little while. Ash only had access to TWO of his moves, while Iris had all FOUR of hers, while having the type advantage plus two super effective moves. The circumstances just seemed a bit too tilted in her favor, it was only a matter of time before Pikachu lost due to damage.
    Last edited by Masurao; 11th August 2011 at 08:41 AM.

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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    I don't think people are surprised by Ash losing so much as they're dumbstruck that they'd just orchestrate this entire tournament to work in Iris' favor from beginning to end. That's just... really not at all like this anime to do that. If the protagonists win anything major, they endure major struggles, learn something important down the road that usually aids them to win even if they don't know it will at that time... it's Storytelling 101 that if you want a compelling arc where your protagonist wins, you make it compelling by making it difficult for the protagonist every single step of the way. That's the way it's been done for years for every single protagonist.

    A lot of the shock here isn't just from Iris beating Ash; it's that she did so with all the odds stacked in her favor. Consequently, the formula's been betrayed and they end the tournament with a heinously one-sided battle that had a foregone conclusion if you go by logic alone. The Ash-being-the-underdog factor was literally the only thing implementing suspense in this match-up. Throughout the tourney Iris was granted convenient plot twists that worked to her and her Pokemon's favor, many of which were shoehorned in at the last second.

    So yeah, the win itself was legitimate, but it was still an undeserved victory and a horribly-executed arc, which is why not everyone's going to be ecstatic over how this turned out.

    But it's all said and done now, and thank god this is over with. This whole arc's just made me feel dirty inside.
    I'm quoting everything, because for once, I agree with everything.

    Maybe it's just BAAAWWWW on my part, but honestly, I do not why the anime would take the whole freaking summer to glorify a character that has barely tipped the iceberg in terms of struggle and conveniently has plot devices thrown her way that makes her merely a product of plot magic.

    Now, before the tournament I can say safely that I was a fan of Iris. I enjoyed her interactions with the cast, I enjoyed her quirks, I wasn't all that interested in the plotlines surrounding her, but she was at least mildly entertaining. Now, after the tournament my enjoyment of Iris has been reduced to merely cold indifference, annoyance, and even dislike. I'll even admit to being bitter that the tournament arc has made me borderline hate a character, which the anime has never done for me before.

    There was just no set-up, build-up, no struggle. I imagine a frisbee of convenient plot devices being thrown her way. I think the victory against Pikachu was well-deserved (more on that later), but even for Iris to reach that point in the tournament let alone win it is very unsettling to me.


    Now with SATOSHI...

    I give up.

    He's no longer the compelling little kid that I fell in love with all those years ago saving that Pikachu, he's no longer the funny, enertaining, kinda bratty beginning trainer he was in OS, nor the kind, calm mentor he was in AG, nor the seasoned veteran he was in DP.

    He's just.. bleh. I just want to go "REALLY?!"

    His arc is no longer compelling, his stupidity bordering complete idiot ball, and he deserved to lose. It makes me want to tear my hair out in frustration.

    As for the tournament as a whole...

    Meh as well. The characters that weren't the main cast got some nice focus - I warmed up significantly to Langley and I really enjoyed Cabernet and Kenyan and Luke. My love for Bel was significantly decreased whenever she interacted with Zorua.

    Whatever.

    Summer wasted.

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    Super Moderator Paperhorse's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    A lot of the shock here isn't just from Iris beating Ash; it's that she did so with all the odds stacked in her favor.
    I agree so much with this statement. Iris just got lucky and everything went her way. Nobody likes a real person who gets lucky all the time and things always seem to go their way, so why would we like a character that has the same thing happen to her?

    Plus, this won't help her development at all. Now, she will go back to calling Satoshi "such a child" and things will still be the same with their interactions, because now she has a win against him.

    I didn't like the Satoshi vs Iris matchup to begin with, but I feel the writers missed their chance to change a bit of the dynamics in Satoshi and Iris's relationship.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperhorse View Post
    the writers missed their chance to change a bit of the dynamics in Satoshi and Iris's relationship.
    This so much.

    Now what is going to happen to all of that respect that Iris had gained for Satoshi and his methods now that a) they're proven to not work, and b) Satoshi's idiot ball in using Pikachu...?

  9. #39
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    I posted this on June 27th, before the tournament even started.

    There's only a few things that could ruin this tournament arc for me, so I'm hoping they don't happen. Ash's Pokemon going nowhere in terms of development (check), Iris winning the entire tournament...which would cause my indifference to her change to disgust(check), and Trip/Ash getting no development whatsoever (check) are the main ones. Ash battling Langley would just be pointless ( check).
    Looks like everything came true, and that's just sad that the story-line would even go that predictable route. This tournament didn't really contribute anything to the story at all, because no really grew or developed at all. It was just the Iris show.

  10. #40
    Excadrill est tres Beast Lafayette Excadrill's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    You know I'm all with freedom of speech and constructive criticism, but if the anime bothers you guys that much, why do you guys still watch? Complaining won't fix anything.

    But anyways, I'm not mad Iris won, no one really deserved to win, so why not have Iris win. The tournament was kinda lackluster in terms of battling. It didn't get good until two episodes in.

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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    For me personally, it's not so much the anime as a whole that bothers me, just the way this tournament was written and how the characters were portrayed (or... nor portrayed. I'm looking at you, Shootie. except not.)

    For the most part I enjoy the cast, it's just the tournament in and of itself was so appallingly bad and such a fiasco that it stands in huge contrast with the rest of series.

    Fingers crossed that the Nyarth episodes restore my faith in the writing.

  12. #42
    Easy listening Masurao's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette Excadrill View Post
    You know I'm all with freedom of speech and constructive criticism, but if the anime bothers you guys that much, why do you guys still watch? Complaining won't fix anything.
    I've been fine with the anime for a while, it wasn't really till after episode 36 of Best Wishes that my interest in Iris as a character started to greatly waver. I like good story-telling, and Iris getting all these conveniences thrown her way in this tournament, especially in the finals, is just not good writing. Plain and simple.
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  13. #43
    Excadrill est tres Beast Lafayette Excadrill's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    The only thing I'm upset with is all the gags that they played to death (Bianca/Zorua, Cilan/Cabernet, Kenyan, & Iris/Langley). I'm not upset with Iris winning because at least someone on the main cast won (which rarely happens) and her win might play a huge role in the future. But all the time they cut away from the battling to have those other useless scenes in every episode was just crazy.

  14. #44
    MEGA F'ING AMPHAROS!!! Ampharos King's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Masurao View Post
    Looks like everything came true, and that's just sad. This tournament didn't contribute anything to the story at all, because no really grew or developed at all.
    Well, this is not entirely true. A lot has happened during this tournament that should be noted as either development or leading into future development:
    - Ash uses Palpitoad for the first time in battle during this tournament. If it wasn't for the Don Battle Tournament, who knows when Palpitoad might have been used. We should be grateful that the writers didn't force Ash to use Tepig or Oshawott in this tournament, as they would have been the most likely choices after Snivy and/or Pikachu.
    - Ash and Trip bonding somewhat during the second episode of the tournament. Trip surely wasn't the main focus of this story arc, but his loss against Cilan proves that he is a still a beginning trainer.
    - Iris's Axew learns Outrage. This will possibly lead into Axew getting more screentime as it learns to either control Outrage or Iris feels confident enough that it might be used in future battles as a result of it learning Outrage.

    This tournament had a lot of excellent battles that must be accounted for. If we didn't already know the winners of such battles, we would have looked at this tournament differently. The battles and animation during this story arc were superb. This story arc more than makes up for the lack of appearances by the recurring rivals. In fact, these recurring rivals have appeared so much in this tournament that some of us may already be sick of their presence. A lot of great battles took place in this story arc and we got a lot of different character interactions between those rivals that we may never see again together.

    This is not to say that there weren't some things in this tournament that I didn't approve of, but I'll take the bad with the good and hope that the writers will showcase each and every one of these rivals individually in the future. This series is still young and we do not know how long it will last.

    Now that this tournament is over, the writers can focus on less important issues like showcasing Ash's other pokemon. Iris may have received the golden treatment during the tournament, but Ash will be the one who will come on top since his gym battle is coming up.
    33Whimsicott33 likes this.

  15. #45
    Cuter in real life Iteru's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 042 "Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!" Review Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Masurao View Post
    This tournament didn't really contribute anything to the story at all, because no really grew or developed at all. It was just the Iris show.
    I agree pretty much with all you said. The tournament overall was very anti-climatic and it feels as if the writers didn't really know what they wanted to do due to all of the re-used gags, some of the short and lackluster battles, as well as a final match that ultimately made Satoshi look pretty bad against a character who isn't one of his rivals.

    I think the main benefit this tournament had was that Langley was allowed to show more of a comedy side compared to her debut, as well as Kenyan and Carbernet showing that they're still interesting characters who will likely be around till the end of the saga.

    Overall, the whole thing was disappointing in my opinion. Arguably I think this is the most disappointing part of Best Wishes so far as the potential was there to fix ongoing problems (like the rivalry with Shooty, lack of screentime for some of the rotationals) but instead it gave more focus to Iris who in my opinion didn't need it at this point in time.

    I'm looking forward to moving on to what appears to be a better arc next week, and hoping that this tournament will mark a period of focus on developing Satoshi's Pokémon and Dent, with a break for Iris.

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