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dukeburger

So much hate for the Battle Tower

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Seriously, is it just me, or is the Hax Tower actually about 130581081 times worse in Platinum than it was in DP?

The AI's use of hax is just as bad as ever, and I wasn't really expecting that to change (even though it SHOULD). What has changed though are the possible Pokemon that you may encounter. Their move sets have been significantly upgraded to reflect the addition of move tutors; they are more versatile and get better coverage. That and the combination of hax prove that I was wrong when I thought the Battle Tower couldn't get any worse!

I wouldn't complain about the new move sets without the hax. I'd think it was cool that Game Freak was legitimately making the Tower more challenging. So WHY do they have to insist on all the hax? Not only does the computer exploit every cheap thing possible that is frowned upon in competitive play, but there is no way that Game Freak didn't increase these chances. The amount of times that very low probability situations happen to everyone who plays this can't be a coincidence. I wonder if there is anything in the coding to actually prove this though? You know, I could even live with the fact that the computer knows things like your ability and move set. Just stop with the hax!

Game Freak's crap doesn't make the Tower an actual test of skill, rather than a test of how long it takes you before you get annoyed and give up. Still, maybe I just really suck. No matter what I do, no matter how much breeding and training I do, no matter what team I put together thinking it can at LEAST live to see Palmer's second team, it never does. And I know many people have done that, and some have even gotten the trainer card upgrade for a 100 win streak.

There are times where I can admit that it was my own fault that I lost, and I'm okay with that. Sometimes it's tough to say, but in those cases, I can think of something that I probably should have done better. On my first run, at battle 38, I lost when I went up against a Kingdra. Not knowing its set, but fearing the new physical set, I left my Starmie in to scout. Looking back, I shouldn't have done that. I should have switched out regardless, as Starmie wouldn't really be able to touch it. I can't remember what the second Pokemon was, but eventually it was down to my Tyranitar and his Starmie. I thought "great, Sandstream will save me and I'll make the KO with Crunch." Nope. Starmie scores a critical hit with Surf, go figure. While that's extremely irritating, I can't really be mad. Critical hits do happen, and that's one thing that doesn't seem to be weighed in the computer's favor. I could have also prevented the whole thing by playing better. Without a doubt, I should have sent in Tyranitar to scout that Kingdra, and maybe my Starmie would have still been alive to help Thunderbolt the other one.

However, too much of the time it's something stupid that shouldn't have happened. And it's almost always in the 36-42 run. Just now, I lost to a Quick Claw Machamp, despite the fact that I was winning 3-1. Quick Claw activated EVERY TIME and Machamp raped my whole team in four turns. It's just beyond aggravating to lose to something like that, and it's definitely not the first time.

There was a time in the Battle Castle where it could have gone either way. I faced a Focus Sash, Guillotine spamming Gliscor. However, I forgot that my Focus Sash Lucario had a small dent in him, and didn't heal him. So if it wasn't for that, my Lucario would have survived the Earthquake (OHKO spammers will use a SE move against you, if they have one, before OHKO spamming... at least in my experience) and would have knocked that 1 HP off of Gliscor. But still, if the computer didn't excel at landing OHKO moves (or use them at all), I would have been fine. Then the Ninja Kid had the audacity to tell me "You lack conviction." I lack conviction? No, I lack an AR to help me land OHKOs about 70% of the time!

I really thought that in Platinum I'd give it another try, and that this would be the game where I went for that black trainer card. But with the combination of better move sets that can easily hurt a 3 member team trying to pack in all the resistances and coverage that it can and all the remaining hax, I doubt it's going to happen. I'll just settle for the gold print, IF that. I guess it's finally time that I stop trying to play fairly, and start devising a plan to abuse the AI. I think the beautiful little Chansey that was just traded to me from Drake should help with that. <3

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  1. BeachBoy's Avatar
    Not only does the computer exploit every cheap thing possible that is frowned upon in competitive play, but there is no way that Game Freak didn't increase these chances.
    I can't say this for certain or with proof, but I vaguely recall reading somewhere that Battle Tower luck was programmed higher. I agree regardless, but hey, that hasn't stopped me.

    Thankfully, some sources of luck-based sets have decreased. I'm personally glad the number of double team sets are down.

    Game Freak's crap doesn't make the Tower an actual test of skill, rather than a test of how long it takes you before you get annoyed and give up.
    I completely disagree. There is plenty of skill involved, and it isn't easy. Team building is a very tough process. (I research so many damage calcs until I know for certain what I get out of something) Do you expect it to be a cake walk? The fact they litter and drown the tower in such tough and seemingly impossible luck, versatility, and increasing AI as you move through the tiers... (You've probably noticed how the AI plays dumb in the beginning and somehow seems to throw games?) makes the game that much more interesting for us Battle Tower junkies. (Or I'd, at least, say that)

    I share your frustrations, though. Early DP, I could barely get past Palmer one. And ended up quitting because of it. Turned around and decided to give it a go. Building a team that I thought did a fine job of taking care of the hax and woes. I then looked and scanned BT threads all over the net, learning new techniques and meeting successful people... Such as FastHippo, an idol of mine that indirectly and directly helped me on the way to a streak of 164. (Which isn't my ceiling, either) Also giving me plenty of confidence because he used a similar strategy, Yawn. (he pairs it with crippling effects, I used screens at the time with my Uxie) He got to 314.

    You've probably seen it on Smogon... If you want to build teams and strategies to beat the Battle Tower and put a 100 streak next on your list of accomplishments, you've got to think smart and exploit the weakness. Build teams that can handle an onslaught of situations, and checking out BT movesets and doing research on what lies ahead and what can get you the biggest bang for your buck. As for exploiting... Example, they don't switch (It can happen, but very rare), what advantage can you take off of that? Some use trick as a major tool for punishing the AI, others use Destiny Bond, etc.

    Here's my lead for the Platinum Battle Tower at the current moment.

    Togekiss @ Focus Sash
    252 HP / 252 Special Defense
    Calm
    Serene Grace
    ---
    Charm
    Roost
    Yawn
    Flash

    That set is nowhere near competitive-play worthy, but it's a hell of a God-like set in the Tower coming from my experiences with it. (Although, Honckrow aren't fun) Adopting Fast's strategy to cripple along with Yawn. Basically saying "Haha lead, you're not touching me" And the Focus Sash, on a bulky Pocket Monster? You can never be too over cautious in the Battle Tower and that item has saved me from nasty crits to get off the game-saving Yawn countless times. (Be it on my Uxie, Umbreon, or Togekiss)

    What other ways help avoid the hax?

    Substitute, arguably the greatest move of all time in regards to the Tower. Say hello to a buffer against surprise Focus Sashers (Sub saved my Garchomp from that Focus Sash Avalanche Ursaring) Quick Claw (who cares if they go first if they can't faint you) and has absolutely no care for annoying status. There's so many benefits with Substitute it's ridiculous.

    My SD Scizor and SD Garchomp (whom set up all day after Togekiss cripples them) use substitute and I win games simply because of that extra protection.

    My opinion? Don't give up, duke! Stick with it, you can win if you find and learn the strategies it takes to beat 'em. I would suggest though, trying out a proven BT team to get the hang of such large streaks, then attempting your own. Just a suggestion.

    Is it easy? Never will be. But is it possible? Definitely.

    EDIT: if you find any of this comments degrading or anything, I'm not trying to be. XD; I have no idea how advanced you are when it comes to Battle Facility knowledge and what not, so I kinda just threw stuff out there. Just offering some help and what I think of your situation from my point of view.

    Good luck with everything~
    Updated 11th April 2009 at 03:00 AM by BeachBoy
  2. dukeburger's Avatar
    Oh no, there was nothing degrading about any of your comments, and in fact, I appreciate such a detailed response! So thank you for that.

    I see what you're saying about that one comment I made about the Tower not being a test of skill. What I meant was that too much of the time it comes down to losing to bad luck... but I see your point about using your own skill to come up with a way of getting around that. I in no way meant to sound like I don't think that those who have defeated the Tower have any skills... in fact, I'm amazed by them!

    Are the double team sets down? Well, that's good news. I just wish that the the Tower was made to be more of a challenge with its better move sets, and would stop with all the luck based situations altogether, but what can you do.

    Although I suppose there's an answer to that, which you've given me - AI abuse! That's something that I haven't taken as much consideration into building teams. While I would keep coming up with things to counter the AI hax, I have yet to come up with something that actually cheats the AI... and you've got some nice ideas.

    I really like your Togekiss set. That's something I never thought of - taking advantage of the fact that they don't switch. I've noticed that they only switch if they have literally nothing to hurt you with. Oh, and believe me, I know what you mean about Focus Sash on things that you wouldn't normally put it on. But as you pointed out... what do you do in the case of Insomnia Pokes? Just take your chances?

    Substitute is something I hadn't thought of... just because I figured I'd never get to use it. But with the help of that Togekiss, I can see how it would work. I may just have to try that, if you don't mind of course. But since it's your team, and not my own, it may be a little awkward to use it at first. That's also what puts me off about using someone else's team. I have also heard about Destiny Bond being a good idea, as you mentioned, so I may try that too.

    Thanks again!
  3. BeachBoy's Avatar
    Anytime, glad I could help out.

    And yeah, I was glad to hear about the Double Team news for one reason. I lost battle 165 thanks to Double Team Raikou. (which was axed in Platinum, haray!) It was a set-up mistake, not missing, though. So eh, glad it's gone regardless. It went from 73 DT sets to 42, case you were wondering.

    How do I handle Insomnia? Well, the good thing is , in Tier 4 (Battle 49+), that it's very rare; no Noctowl, Ariados, or Banette. (those guys - and Taunt Honckrow; my enemy - stay in the earlier rounds) Leaving two Pocket Monsters of notable concern. For instance, Choice Specs Hypno or Scope Lens Honchkrow. Instead of trying Yawn, I try to go down in flames at least blinding them with Flash. Giving one of my sweepers some set-up. If they can miss, I can win. Scizor resists both Pocket Monsters quite well, but I'd love for him to at least have a substitute up for what lies ahead.

    If I can't get anything, and just one flash from Sash-save... It's just a wing-it scenario. Do I like that? Not at all, but I can't cover everything.

    Usually, going up to 49, I'm using test teams. (simply getting a feel for others before another gets ready for the hardcore Tier 4 Pocket Monsters, legendaries, etc) And if they happen to fail, I don't mind losing up to 49, at all really, because I know I can get back there. That's what I love about the Battle Tower, you can take as many shots as you want. It never ends.

    Since it was their first run though, I did use the Togekiss squad from battle one. And met Taunt Honckrow (a pain in the neck for early rounds, blah) but still won. Garchomp handled it and the rest of the party quite well. And here's their second Palmer battle... ID: 80 - 72624 - 95321. (Fun, to say the least)

    If you'd like to use it, go right ahead. (I don't mind whatsoever, someone used my Umbreon team in DP and got to 186, so hey, why not?) But it's your call. If you don't want to due to the awkward feeling, that's okay.

    Good luck, duke. o/
  4. dukeburger's Avatar
    Thanks, I managed to score the gold print - same team, just better luck avoiding the hax this time around.

    My video certainly isn't as fun as your's, but I'm going to post the code anyway, just so I don't lose it: 93-86274-69192. It's basically the same team that was used I believe by Jumpman on Smogon for the DP Tower. I don't really want to take credit for it, though I will say that coincidentally, I came up with the same Starmie set from day one of challenging the Battle Tower. I always tried building teams around this Starmie, because I liked it so much. For a while I paired it with Electivire, and then Garchomp, but was wary to try with Tyranitar due to sandstream. However, sandstream isn't a problem, and usually ends up helping more than hurting. But I don't think this team works as well for the Platinum tower, and it does involve VERY smart switching to make it work. It also has problems with things like Swampert, and a lot of the new sets.

    Anyway, thanks for sharing your video, it was a good watch! I especially loved how Heatran exploded and the attack missed you, haha. Your strategy is very great. Taunt Honchkrow does sound rough, but thankfully Garchomp and Scizor are pretty safe switch-ins, I'd think.

    I'd love to give your team a try for the 100 win streak, although that'll be a while, as I want to get all gold prints before I do that. I just meant that it may take quite a few tries before I get comfortable with the team. Out of curiosity, what's your Umbreon team?
  5. BeachBoy's Avatar
    Congratulations, then.

    And ah, yeah, coincidences tend to happen with BT teams.

    Gladly, and haha, I thought the Heatran miss made the battle worth it too.

    And oh, okay, I see what you're saying now.

    My Umbreon team post is [ here ]. The only thing that's changing consistently is Gyarados, the set and EVs still aren't set in stone. But that set at least made it to 186. So who knows what happens there.
  6. dukeburger's Avatar
    That team looks pretty nice... although, I'm sure the detailed descriptions about working around the top threats in the Tower don't apply to the same things now. How far have you gotten in the Platinum tower with your Togekiss/Garchomp/Scizor method? On a side note, I bred a pretty nice Scyther that I haven't trained yet, and was thinking of using it in the Arcade, for some reason.
  7. i_wana_be_a_scizor's Avatar
    one strategy to try is tricking your opponent a choice item, usually a scarf, then depending on what move they use either taunt for if they swords dance etc. or grudge and let them struggle themselves away while you set up a substitute and a few calm minds or whatever suits. a good example of a trickster is spiritomb, max hp evs and split the defense and spe.def evs, tutor it trick, give it grude and taunt and protect, protect so you can scout what move they get scarfed into using

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