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I finally understand Iris's Dragonite.

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When today's episode aired, I was confused as to why Dragonite was listening to Iris at the very beginning but then became his old self later on. Here's the explanation:



What does this mean?

It means that Dragonite is willing to listen to Iris when a weaker opponent is in question, he trusts her in those situations. However, when a worthy and strong opponent is involved, he succumbs to his wild instincts and listens to no one but himself. Naturally, this only became apparent today and the problem still hasn't been solved. That means, in my opinion, that this will lead to some further Dragonite development and hopefully, it will involve Drayden as well.

As this episode has showcased, Iris has a long way to go before she can become a Dragon Master and command over any dragon type with ease. Dragonite has set up an obstacle on her path towards reaching her goal of becoming a Dragon Master so I'm truly looking forward to seeing how Iris will overcome it and grow even more.

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Updated 30th August 2012 at 06:34 AM by Tsutarja

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  1. Bubble Frog's Avatar
    I know, he went all psychopath during the battle. I liked it a lot, and Ash feeling bad for Iris and deciding to end things there.

    Krookodile was amazing.
  2. Tsutarja's Avatar
    Hopefully this will shed some light on the whole situation.

    Though I can see certain people ignoring it. xD
  3. HumanDawn's Avatar
    Somebody thought that Iris was a Dragon Master already?

    Who would think such a thing?
  4. Tsutarja's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Human
    Somebody thought that Iris was a Dragon Master already?
    I don't know, the same people who call her Mary Sue?
  5. matt0044's Avatar
    Wow. And to think people said this wouldn't give her any sort of possible development.

    Still wish Axew would evolve though...
  6. Trainer Yusuf's Avatar
    I wasn't expecting Ohashi to write a good Iris battle, but he turned out to be the best candidate for this episode. Somebody who is truly sadistic towards her was needed, and it worked brilliantly.

    Hopefully when I watch the first seven or so minutes I missed, I will make a proper blog about it.
  7. Silktree's Avatar
    Has this been stated in today's episode? While your explanation makes some sense, what matters is how the writers choose to describe the situation; this isn't the sort of thing that fans should have to interpret.
  8. HumanDawn's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsutarja View Post
    I don't know, the same people who call her Mary Sue?
    Are you sure?
  9. Tsutarja's Avatar
    @Silktree;

    Imo, it's the only explanation that makes sense. He listened to her until Krokorok started presenting a threat, Krokorok learned Dragon Claw which hit Dragonite hard (literally). After it hit him, he started going on rampage and disobeying Iris once more. Also, it has been stated that Dragonite loves battling strong opponents, in which case, he listens to himself. When a weak opponent goes against him, he listens to Iris. That's what he did today, until Krokorok learned Dragon Claw and endangered his win.

    My interpretation is not confirmed as far as I know, but I believe that it makes a lot of sense given what we've seen in today's episode. All the Pokémon Dragonite has faced so far (Hydreigon, Beartic, Mamoswine) were strong, so far, we haven't seen Dragonite in a battle against a weaker opponent. That is, until today, when the event happened that I already described.

    @Human;

    Yes, I'm sure. You can't miss it. xD
  10. Silktree's Avatar
    I agree that there is no better explanation for what happened, but the writers explained Dragonite's problem via Cynthia, right? I don't think there is room for interpretation here.
  11. HumanDawn's Avatar
    @Tsutarja;

    Maybe I should remove the huge list of people I've put on my ignore list.
  12. Hellion's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Human
    Somebody thought that Iris was a Dragon Master already?

    Who would think such a thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsutarja
    I don't know, the same people who call her Mary Sue?
    If how Iris was portrayed in this episode was how she was portrayed way more frequently, then I don't think anybody would have ever called Iris a Mary Sue, cause she would actually have been a well constructed character. It's actually sad that we didn't see more of this because she could actually have been compelling... if she wasn't in the semis of the tournament with an overpowered Kairyu she didn't train or really merit after spending 91 episodes sitting on her hands and being handed achievements over achievements... then maybe I'd actually care. :)
  13. Tsutarja's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion
    If how Iris was portrayed in this episode was how she was portrayed way more frequently, then I don't think anybody would have ever called Iris a Mary Sue, cause she would actually have been a well constructed character.
    Throughout BW, Iris has been constantly portrayed as a character who has a long way to go before she can reach her goal. A character with flaws and fear who always stumbles upon a new obstacle. Though for some reason, her character development always gets ignored. (such as case of Excadrill, Deino or Dragonite)

    Gee, I wonder why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion
    It's actually sad that we didn't see more of this because she could actually have been compelling...
    In your opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion
    if she wasn't in the semis of the tournament with an overpowered Kairyu she didn't train or really merit
    Merit? I'm not exactly sure if you have seen the Dragonite episode, but Iris absolutely deserves him. Unlike Dawn's Togekiss (where she did nothing but sit and play princess), Iris was actively involved, determined to help from start, fired up as a true a trainer who wishes to become a Dragon Master. She, and only she deserved that Dragonite.

    Not only did this Dragonite get her closer to her goal (because God knows how much complaints I've seen from some people about lack of Dragons), it also set up on obstacle. And I do not understand why you guys have a problem with Iris reaching semifinals when it all reflected back to her? Langley admitted she did nothing to get as far as she did, everyone else realized she and Dragonite were no good, even Iris herself realized that.

    To say she doesn't really deserve it is an obvious example of a person biased towards her character. He obviously brought a lot into Iris's development and will keep doing it. But yeah, as I'm aware, you don't care about Iris so why should you care about Dragonite?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion
    after spending 91 episodes sitting on her hands and being handed achievements over achievements... then maybe I'd actually care. :)
    Achievements, over achievements?

    So, she wins this one Don Battle tourney with her first Pokémon (the pair on who we actually got an episode on development and backstory that shows how good of a team they were) and suddenly this counts as multiple achievements?

    How so?

    Or is your mind playing tricks on you?
    Updated 1st September 2012 at 01:23 AM by Tsutarja
  14. HumanDawn's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion
    If how Iris was portrayed in this episode was how she was portrayed way more frequently, then I don't think anybody would have ever called Iris a Mary Sue, cause she would actually have been a well constructed character. It's actually sad that we didn't see more of this because she could actually have been compelling... if she wasn't in the semis of the tournament with an overpowered Kairyu she didn't train or really merit after spending 91 episodes sitting on her hands and being handed achievements over achievements... then maybe I'd actually care. :)
    oh you
  15. Iteru's Avatar
    Not only did this Dragonite get her closer to her goal (because God knows how much complaints I've seen from some people about lack of Dragons), it also set up on obstacle. And I do not understand why you guys have a problem with Iris reaching semifinals when it all reflected back to her? Langley admitted she did nothing to get as far as she did, everyone else realized she and Dragonite were no good, even Iris herself realized that.
    I disagree with you there on a technicallity. If everyone had full acknowledged that its Dragonite doing the work than Iris should really be disqualified. The battles for the first two rounds were pretty much battling a wild Pokémon, and IIRC they said at the end of every battle that the winners were "Iris and Dragonite". It's something that would go down on the record books as a win for her.

    Ideally I think she (and the previous times with Lizardon not obeying and when Mammo didn't, though he got a loss anyway when he acted up) should have forfeited. They haven't been trainer battles until the one against Krookodile and she and the others are weaker trainers by default if they can't even give acknowledged commands. I think its weird the writers haven't done that yet when working hard is one of the Anime's goals, yet the other trainers who did work hard with their Pokémon get the raw end of the deal.

    Personally I'm just glad its being acknowledged. I don't think we ever got a real explanation about Emonga, which makes it seem weird they bothered in the first place. I do really hope its Drayden that helps though and not Cynthia. I was sick of her two years ago :P
  16. Tsutarja's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Iteru
    I disagree with you there on a technicallity. If everyone had full acknowledged that its Dragonite doing the work than Iris should really be disqualified. The battles for the first two rounds were pretty much battling a wild Pokémon, and IIRC they said at the end of every battle that the winners were "Iris and Dragonite". It's something that would go down on the record books as a win for her.
    Not everyone acknowledged it, true.

    But Langley did. Being her rival, I was very glad to see Langley referring to Iris's incompetence especially since she desires for Iris to get stronger, not just catch strong Pokémon and stand by the sidelines without doing anything. I don't care if everyone else acknowledged it, the most important person (her rival) did, and that's what matters to me.

    Also, Cynthia acknowledged that as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iteru
    Ideally I think she (and the previous times with Lizardon not obeying and when Mammo didn't, though he got a loss anyway when he acted up) should have forfeited.
    At least she tried. It's obvious that she tried talking with Dragonite between the rounds hoping that he would listen to her. She was so happy to see Dragonite obeying her in her battle against Ash and Krokorok (much to everyone's surprise), only to have her humiliated in the semi-finals round with her own Pokémon causing havoc and suiffering from an eventual loss. Both Langley and Burgundy called her out on it and I think everyone realized by that point that Iris and Dragonite weren't a real team, there wasn't enough trust.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iteru
    I think its weird the writers haven't done that yet when working hard is one of the Anime's goals, yet the other trainers who did work hard with their Pokémon get the raw end of the deal.
    Despite everything, Iris got the raw end. I can see why some Dawn fans might be pissed, but Dawn beat May in the Wallace Cup too, and May fans weren't too pleased. Though I don't think this tournament would have taken any different route even if Iris didn't enter with Dragonite. Trip's Serperior would still be overpowered, he would easily beat Ash and the finals would result with Trip facing Alder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iteru
    Personally I'm just glad its being acknowledged. I don't think we ever got a real explanation about Emonga, which makes it seem weird they bothered in the first place. I do really hope its Drayden that helps though and not Cynthia. I was sick of her two years ago :P
    I don't know, Emonga is just a mystery to me. Sometimes I feel like she's lazy just for the comedy sake and when it comes to serious stuff, she's willing to listen to Iris.

    And I agree about Drayden helping Iris out. Though if he does, I'm wondering what about Excadrill then? Will we get an eventual Haxorus VS Excadrill rematch now that both Iris and Excadrill have grown since their last battle with him? Or will only Dragonite get featured?

    I'll be happy as long as Iris doesn't give her Dragonite away. I can't believe there are people who think it should end up with him. -.- Anyway, I'm just happy that Iris has another dragon, I'm looking forward to the resolution of Iris/Dragonite trust.
  17. Hellion's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsutarja
    Throughout BW, Iris has been constantly portrayed as a character who has a long way to go before she can reach her goal. A character with flaws and fear who always stumbles upon a new obstacle.
    I'm sorry, where exactly in BW027 or in the Don Battle tournament is she actually portrayed as someone that still has a long way to go to reach her goal of becoming a Dragon Master? In BW027, she knows everything there is to know about dragons, can turn Crimgan into a battling machine and Emmy into a competent battle despite not really having met either before, she's already able to read Kibago and Crimgan's hearts, can sense Kibago over great distances and finally sees the previous "obstacle" that was set up for her disappear in smokes despite her being previously portrayed as being frustrated and not understanding why Kibago didn't get it. But no, she was right all along with her vast amount of Dragon knowledge that she just needed to sit on her hands, wait for Kibago to miraculously get it and then wham, it happens. Then there's the Doryuuzu episode where her 8 year old self just beat everyone in the Dragon Village who are close with their Dragon with her unevolved Mogurew. Not much flaw there, but wait she gets to battle Shaga, a real Dragon Master. He beats her, because it takes that level of badass to even get a shot at beating 8 years old Iris and her Doryuuzu. Does the battle establish a flaw in Iris? No, not really. She and Doryuuzu both want to battle Shaga, in the battle, Doryuuzu realizes his opponent is very strong and loses the battle, but nowhere is Iris portrayed as disregarding her Pokémon's safety (she stops the battle the minute it received its first hit) and she actually tries to comfort Doryuuzu, encourages him, pretty much putting all of this on Doryuuzu. Then, of course, the Don battle where all the previous issues she had with her team are flung out the window, she wins two battles with an Emonga whom she didn't train and didn't obey her until the tournament. Her Kibago can't battle to save its life? That's okay, she'll hax her way out of this. And then the finals where Satoshi is out strategizing her, but it doesn't matter, her Doryuuzu is so much stronger and can take any hit, so of course she wins the tournament despite doing the least amount of battling and the least amount of working towards her goal. This was followed by 50 episodes of Iris sitting on her hands doing jack and then poof... Kibago suddenly can use Giga Impact and her Pokémon stagnated while everybody else improved? Who cares, we'll just give her a Kairyu on a silver platter that can go toe-to-toe with legendaries and be portrayed as being stronger than all the other Pokémon in the tournament put together.

    Flaws? Development? Not quite...

    Merit?
    Did she actually get better as a Dragon trainer throughout the show to warrant a Kairyu? Did she gain skills and learned more and more things? No, therefore, there was no reason to give her a Kairyu in the first place. Giving Iris another dragon is a valid choice on the writers' part, but somewhere the choice that was made wasn't say... a Vibrava or a Miniryu, but a Kairyu that was stronger than pretty much everybody else's Pokémon while Iris didn't put a tenth of the effort, of the battles, of anything. Kairyu, as a whole, never should have happened to begin with, especially since the whole purpose of the journey is to evolve Kibago, i.e. to get a fully evolved dragon through training him, through battling alongside him and bonding with him, etc. Now, she got the results without any of the effort.

    Langley admitted she did nothing to get as far as she did, everyone else realized she and Dragonite were no good, even Iris herself realized that.
    At the end of the day, Iris still made it to the Top 4. What Langley said, what everyone realized, what Iris felt after the battle was because of the loss which could have happened in round 1 and have the same effect, the same results and not throw characters under the bus in the process. Bonus. The two wins served absolutely no purpose but to hype Kairyu some more and have Iris get the achievement of making Top 4 over characters who were more deserving.

    So, she wins this one Don Battle tourney with her first Pokémon (the pair on who we actually got an episode on development and backstory that shows how good of a team they were) and suddenly this counts as multiple achievements?
    Winning the Don Battle took three Pokémon, two of them were derailed to make the final happen. Again, Iris and Doryuuzu getting a great battle that showed how close they were could have happened early in the tournament, Iris could have won the first two rounds with Doryuuzu and lost because her Kibago wasn't on par with the rest of the competition. But once again, somewhere along the way, the decision was taken to throw all her issues out the window, have them resolved just because Iris said they should... Right...

    But to answer your question, getting the Don Battle isn't the only achievement she has. Kibago learning Outrage, Kibago learning Giga Impact, Iris getting Kairyu, Iris making it to Top 8 of the Donamite (over a more deserving Cabernet), Iris making it to Top 4 of the Junior Cup (over more deserving Langley and Hikari) are all achievements for which she did little or nothing to warrant and yet got. She's consistently been portrayed as being stronger and better than pretty much every other character on the show despite not putting in a tenth of the effort they put in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsutarja
    I can see why some Dawn fans might be pissed, but Dawn beat May in the Wallace Cup too, and May fans weren't too pleased.
    You are comparing apples and oranges here. Thing is, before the Mikuri Cup, guess what? Hikari faced a problem, with her own skills, with her own Pokémon, she battled hard to build her confidence, to become tighter with her Pokémon, overcame a lot of issues to merit that win. Storyline wise, this was earned because of what she had done prior to the Mikuri Cup and Haruka still got to look really good in her battle against Hikari, but also got to mentor Hikari and really be portrayed as the more experienced coordinator, as the one who knew more, and got a killer win against Nozomi. Compared to Hikari acting like Iris is god, being shown to be almost amateurish in her battle against Iris who hasn't done jack prior to the tournament, shows up with a Pokémon she's never trained or battled with, has no strategy, displays no real skill and still gets away with the win...

    obvious example of a person biased towards her character.
    You really need new ways to defend your opinions instead of resorting to personal attacks. I watch the show, I gave a chance to every character, and through watching the show, I formed an opinion on them. Honestly, your claims of bias are getting old. If everything negative I say about Iris has no value because of this "bias" against her character, then everything positive you have to say is equally lacking in value because of the bias you have towards the character. I don't see it like that, you have your opinions based on your outlook on the show, it's how you interpret it. I disagree with your opinions and explain my outlook, but nowhere in this discussion did I actually make it about you.

    Your claims of bias are even more unfounded when I actually said I actually liked how Iris was portrayed in this week's episode. I actually like where the writers seem to be getting with her character but that the impact of this event isn't what it could have been (i.e. I'm not that compelled by Iris) because of the 91 previous episodes where it was God Mode Iris and the season 2 that was pretty much Black Hole Iris season. I think that if we had seen more of the Iris in the last episode throughout the season, the reaction to her loss would have been more along the lines of "Awwww she lost, I can't wait to see how she'll bounce back" and less of the "Ding Dong the witch is dead, let's put on our boogie shoes and dance on her corpse" reaction we see all around.
    Updated 1st September 2012 at 09:35 AM by Hellion
  18. HumanDawn's Avatar
    ^ BUT HELLION!

    I can't help but lower my head reading your posts. They're booooorrrrriiiiing. I've already read your interpretation dozens of times. So has Tsutarja. No need to repeat another time about your views on Iris or bait us in preview threads about the "Iris show" or some crap like that. Honestly, I can't take one's opinion seriously with such behaviour. TBH, you're such a kid.
    Updated 1st September 2012 at 10:01 AM by HumanDawn
  19. Tsutarja's Avatar
    Wow, these walls of text are intimidating ... not. <_<

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion
    I'm sorry, where exactly in BW027 or in the Don Battle tournament is she actually portrayed as someone that still has a long way to go to reach her goal of becoming a Dragon Master? In BW027, she knows everything there is to know about dragons, can turn Crimgan into a battling machine and Emmy into a competent battle despite not really having met either before, she's already able to read Kibago and Crimgan's hearts, can sense Kibago over great distances and finally sees the previous "obstacle" that was set up for her disappear in smokes despite her being previously portrayed as being frustrated and not understanding why Kibago didn't get it.
    It was an episode that established that Iris does know something about the dragons. A character doesn't have to be a complete idiot to learn his way towards the top. Iris feeling Axew's heart (only Axew's) was a further confirmation of how close to dragon types she is, how much she loves them, especially her Axew which was noted in several episode. Also, she turned Crimgan into a "battle machine" ?

    May I remind you that Iris merely instructed Emily on her stance while Ash was the one who battled her Crimgan with his Tepig. The fact that he learned Draco Meteor probably stem from the Tepig's defeat since Pokémon do get stronger by defeating others. It was also a clever throwback to Iris's in-game character where she teaches your dragon type Draco Meteor. It was a sort of an easter egg for an episode about Iris and dragon types.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion
    But no, she was right all along with her vast amount of Dragon knowledge that she just needed to sit on her hands, wait for Kibago to miraculously get it and then wham, it happens.
    Which is no different than Ash's Gible. They both used same methods, Axew just had to get himself used to the attack by trying to use it constantly, over and over again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion
    Then there's the Doryuuzu episode where her 8 year old self just beat everyone in the Dragon Village who are close with their Dragon with her unevolved Mogurew. Not much flaw there, but wait she gets to battle Shaga, a real Dragon Master. He beats her, because it takes that level of badass to even get a shot at beating 8 years old Iris and her Doryuuzu. Does the battle establish a flaw in Iris? No, not really. She and Doryuuzu both want to battle Shaga, in the battle, Doryuuzu realizes his opponent is very strong and loses the battle, but nowhere is Iris portrayed as disregarding her Pokémon's safety (she stops the battle the minute it received its first hit) and she actually tries to comfort Doryuuzu, encourages him, pretty much putting all of this on Doryuuzu.
    You're are so interpreting this in a wrong way.

    Even Cilan stated that Iris might have been wrong and that she could have misinterpreted Excadrill's feeling, that she made a wrong choice. The writers pretty much outright stated through his character (a rare Cilan moment actually related to his goal) that she was wrong. And the guilt was both on Iris and Excadrill. Iris knew that she was pressuring Excadrill in the battle against Haxorus by telling him they can win (by then he had already realized they couldn't) and that she misread his feelings leading to a humiliating defeat. Iris became desperate and begged for his forgiveness, admitted her fault and said that he doesn't have to battle anymore as long as he remains her friend. A crucial moment that depicted that Iris cares about her friendships far more than wins and battles.

    Oh, and the 100 battles thing is nothing bad. So what if she had won 100 battles? That even more proves that she and Drilbur were an awesome team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion
    Then, of course, the Don battle where all the previous issues she had with her team are flung out the window, she wins two battles with an Emonga whom she didn't train and didn't obey her until the tournament.
    Emonga, yeah, a Pokémon who's lazy in comical situations and battles when serious stuff is in question. I mean, that's really obvious. Besides, laziness isn't a huge issue, it doesn't need development. If that were the case, I think 90% of our human population would need some character development and that speaks for itself.

    I can be lazy but that doesn't mean I won't do stuff when asked nicely or when I know that it's crucial for someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion
    Her Kibago can't battle to save its life? That's okay, she'll hax her way out of this. And then the finals where Satoshi is out strategizing her, but it doesn't matter, her Doryuuzu is so much stronger and can take any hit, so of course she wins the tournament despite doing the least amount of battling and the least amount of working towards her goal. This was followed by 50 episodes of Iris sitting on her hands doing jack and then poof... Kibago suddenly can use Giga Impact and her Pokémon stagnated while everybody else improved?
    Yeah, let's nag Axew about the moves he can't even use himself. Outrage and Giga Impact, when will we ever see those again? He can't control those moves. Otherwise, we would be seeing them more often. Why didn't he use it against Cynthia's Garchomp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion
    Who cares, we'll just give her a Kairyu on a silver platter that can go toe-to-toe with legendaries and be portrayed as being stronger than all the other Pokémon in the tournament put together.
    Ugh, the "silver platter" statement is so redundant given the fact that Iris actually deserved this Dragonite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion
    Did she actually get better as a Dragon trainer throughout the show to warrant a Kairyu? Did she gain skills and learned more and more things? No, therefore, there was no reason to give her a Kairyu in the first place.
    Yes, she did become a better Dragon trainer. It was all about being a Dragon trainer in that episode. In addition, her skill of reading dragon hearts improved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion
    Kairyu, as a whole, never should have happened to begin with, especially since the whole purpose of the journey is to evolve Kibago, i.e. to get a fully evolved dragon through training him, through battling alongside him and bonding with him, etc. Now, she got the results without any of the effort.
    Axew was never gonna evolve in the first place. And you know why? Because the animation directions said so, due to animation difficulty and stuff like that, you know, due to marketing, which happens to be whole damn concept behind this show.

    And do you seriously think this is the last we've seen of Axew? Do you think he's just going to get ignored? That her goal of raising into Haxorus is going to get ignored?

    Nope. We have yet to get to the Opelucid/Dragon Village arc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion
    At the end of the day, Iris still made it to the Top 4. What Langley said, what everyone realized, what Iris felt after the battle was because of the loss which could have happened in round 1 and have the same effect, the same results and not throw characters under the bus in the process. Bonus. The two wins served absolutely no purpose but to hype Kairyu some more and have Iris get the achievement of making Top 4 over characters who were more deserving.
    Like I already stated, and I won't repeat myself too much.

    Obstacle, development, set up for more development. She tried helping Dragonite, bonded with him slightly, we got to see how strong he really is and yet how much work he and Iris have to go through before becoming a team. The bottom line is, if she were a Dragon Master, she would have Dragonite under control. She would use her almighty, god-like powers to get him to listen to her.

    But she didn't. She's flawed and has more to learn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion
    Winning the Don Battle took three Pokémon, two of them were derailed to make the final happen. Again, Iris and Doryuuzu getting a great battle that showed how close they were could have happened early in the tournament, Iris could have won the first two rounds with Doryuuzu and lost because her Kibago wasn't on par with the rest of the competition. But once again, somewhere along the way, the decision was taken to throw all her issues out the window, have them resolved just because Iris said they should... Right...
    I'm not going to repeat myself as this post is already long enough as it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion
    But to answer your question, getting the Don Battle isn't the only achievement she has. Kibago learning Outrage, Kibago learning Giga Impact, Iris getting Kairyu, Iris making it to Top 8 of the Donamite (over a more deserving Cabernet), Iris making it to Top 4 of the Junior Cup (over more deserving Langley and Hikari) are all achievements for which she did little or nothing to warrant and yet got. She's consistently been portrayed as being stronger and better than pretty much every other character on the show despite not putting in a tenth of the effort they put in.
    Yeah, Cabernet was far more deserving. I do think Cabernet had potential, but she's treated bad only so Cilan can be this perfect little character. She's a buttmonkey. She had her shot to improve, but she didn't. She's pretty much the worst rival in BW and I don't understand why she wasn't written out yet as she does nothing but spread delusional hatred. Yes, a crazy chick who wants revenge is definitely deserving.

    And by achievements, I actually meant trophies and such. She only won the Don Battle tourney, the rest is bonus and it came along with her development.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion
    Compared to Hikari acting like Iris is god, being shown to be almost amateurish in her battle against Iris who hasn't done jack prior to the tournament, shows up with a Pokémon she's never trained or battled with, has no strategy, displays no real skill and still gets away with the win...
    Um wow, Iris is such a goddess. She has these heavenly powers that allow her to summon moves out of nowhere. And guess what else? Iris is the reason why Ash's team was badly handed. Her almighty presence led to Ash's skills to regress and his stupidity to increase as well as lack of rivalry between him and Trip. Oh boy, she's a witch I tell ya, a witch!

    Um wow ... just, wow. She trained with Excadrill and Axew, Emolga was already decent by herself, she utilized clever strategy against Kenyan's Sawk and has displayed many skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion
    If everything negative I say about Iris has no value because of this "bias" against her character, then everything positive you have to say is equally lacking in value because of the bias you have towards the character. I don't see it like that, you have your opinions based on your outlook on the show, it's how you interpret it. I disagree with your opinions and explain my outlook, but nowhere in this discussion did I actually make it about you.
    Oh, I am sorry.

    (I shall pray to my goddess Iris for forgiveness. :P)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion
    Your claims of bias are even more unfounded when I actually said I actually liked how Iris was portrayed in this week's episode.
    Which doesn't mean your arguments about her past episodes are right.

    You respond, I respond.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion
    I actually like where the writers seem to be getting with her character but that the impact of this event isn't what it could have been (i.e. I'm not that compelled by Iris) because of the 91 previous episodes where it was God Mode Iris and the season 2 that was pretty much Black Hole Iris season. I think that if we had seen more of the Iris in the last episode throughout the season, the reaction to her loss would have been more along the lines of "Awwww she lost, I can't wait to see how she'll bounce back" and less of the "Ding Dong the witch is dead, let's put on our boogie shoes and dance on her corpse" reaction we see all around.
    Well, if you feel that way.

    I still majorly disagree with you and the way you form your arguments.
  20. HumanDawn's Avatar
    I don't understand why she wasn't written out yet as she does nothing but spread delusional hatred. Yes, a crazy chick who wants revenge is definitely deserving.
    Burgundy is so going to be the serial killer in the Best Wishes! Mafia I'm thinking of making.

    Win condition: Kill Cilan
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