EmotionalTensionPKMN

Being iconic to who? I grew up with Kanto and she's not iconic to me compared to any other character. Millions of kids grew up with the anime long after Misty was gone. They don't view her as iconic.

Which three human characters do fans typically associate Pokemon with? Ash, Misty and Brock. Though if you were allowed to list Pokemon as well, the answer would probably look something like: Ash, Pikachu, TR.

Just as Animaniacs is not complete without just two of them (can you imagine the show without Dot, the Warner Sister?), many feel that Pokemon isn't the same without her.

There's more to Pokemon than just one female character, but she was still a favorite of a lot of people (Brock was better :P )

Originally Posted by stickerstaryoshi

Which three human characters do fans typically associate Pokemon with? Ash, Misty and Brock. Though if you were allowed to list Pokemon as well, the answer would probably look something like: Ash, Pikachu, TR.

That's funny, because when I think of Pokemon I just think of whoever the current cast is. Right now I think about Ash, Iris and Cilan. If you asked me a few years ago I would have said Ash/May/Max/Brock or Ash/Dawn/Brock. The only time I even think about Misty is if:

A) If I'm rewatching the older episodes

b) If she actually shows up again, but this is obviously extremely rare given she has almost no appearances after Johto ended.

c) If people are talking about the entire run of the show and I have to discuss her on forums like I'm doing now.


If you actually think these last 10 years have been people basing the anime against a single short-lived character...that is just ridiculous. Given the anime is now in its 16th season, that means Misty was really only in about 35-38% of the animes total run. You don't actually realize how short lived Misty's character was until you do the math...and realize how long she's been gone.

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

That's funny, because when I think of Pokemon I just think of whoever the current cast is.

Maybe you (among others), but people (90s kids in particular) think of A/M/B.

If you actually think these last 10 years have been people basing the anime against a single short-lived character...that is just ridiculous.

No one said it was based on her, I only said that she's one of the three people that people associate the anime with.

Given the anime is now in its 16th season, that means Misty was really only in about 35-38% of the animes total run. You don't actually realize how short lived Misty's character was until you do the math...and realize how long she's been gone.

I do realize she's been gone long enough to the point that a return is almost impossible, but when people hear or see anything involving a character they like (for example, the Misty lure, and I think there was that one interview with her VA during either AG or DP, and it turned out to be somewhat unrelated), they can't help but hold on to a shred of hope, even if in reality, it seems ridiculous.

I have accepted that Misty may likely never be a main character again, but from other people's POV, they may think otherwise.

Oh great another topic gone Misty-centric XD

Originally Posted by stickerstaryoshi

Maybe you (among others), but people (90s kids in particular) think of A/M/B.

I grew up in the 90's, (well I was born in the 80's but you get the point), and I watched the show religiously in the early seasons. Why is it many people like myself grew up with the show, but isn't obsessed with the early seasons and/or Misty?

In fact did you notice that all the people who are huge fans of AG or DP, are actually people who started with Kanto? Those people aren't new or younger pokemon fans. Most of these people started watching Pokemon back in 1998, but favor the newer arcs and characters over the older ones. I only notice a handful of younger users coming online saying they started with Hoenn or Sinnoh, most started with Kanto but favor those sagas over it.

I do realize she's been gone long enough to the point that a return is almost impossible, but when people hear or see anythingnvolving a character they like (for example, the Misty lure, and I think there was that one interview with her VA during either AG or DP, and it turned out to be somewhat unrelated), they can't help but hold on to a shred of hope, even if in reality, it seems ridiculous.

That's what happens for any old character. When May and Dawn made their cameos, when Gary appeared in DP, when Giovanni appeared in Best Wishes, etc. Given continuity with past sagas is rare, whenever an old character does show up its a big event.

I have accepted that Misty may likely never be a main character again, but from other people's POV, they may think otherwise.

Oh great another topic gone Misty-centric XD

For me its not even about Misty's status as a main character, its just why people have this obsession with trying to glorify her when nobody really cares? Why feel the need to champion Misty on forums when everyone has already made up their opinion on which characters they like? What does it even accomplish?

Different strokes for different blokes, I guess. (Purely coincidental this is also the title of a DP dub episode = XD). I am one of the few who thinks some of the TPCi dub voices are better than when they started, while others are worse than when they started (luckily for me, 2/3 of those voices are not Ash or a member of TRio). Additionally, I am one of the few who likes OS (yes, even the hell-induced filler of Johto, people) and AG more than its successors despite how different and varied they are (I didn't get the "Wait, where I have seen this setup before?" from either saga).

Honestly, I agree the show has far larger issues to deal with now than its mistreatment of characters who aren't on the show, their cameos and or lack of appearances, the voice acting for characters with replacement voices as far as the dub is concerned, or how much of the original JPN BGM is being replaced by the dub in recent episodes. All of these things are relatively minor issues and can be withstood easily in comparison to the other issues.

For example, the writing's been downright abysmal from BW2 until BW115 (BW116 was well-written, though), the anime's far too cyclical at this point, and Ash and TRio have grown utterly stale as characters: Ash even regressed this arc at the League in rank.

While I personally enjoy the light-hearted OS style take BW has taken for the most part, I can definitely acknowledge this arc has not been great in terms of writing or character development. The only way I can see the Pokemon anime growing in popularity from when it began is if Ash is retired after becoming a "Master," and a new, more experienced protagonist taking center stage with a new group of friends.

Ah god, the party's already been crashed it seems. Anyways, consider the franchise as a whole. A lot of Pokemon's success comes from not only how easy people get hooked on it, but the fact that its brought so many people together and established a very long lasting fanbase. Plenty of people who have played the games, the tcg, bought merchandise, etc have been doing it for years. And the creators of these products have always paid attention to all their fans. What I see is a gold standard set by the rest of the franchise that the anime has fallen short; attentiveness to the long-term fanbase. Replacing Misty and Brock, switching up the VA's, regressing Ash in BW, these are all things that have had a negative impact on the loyal fans. And before you-know-what is said lets be frank here, with Pokemon's deep fandom roots there's really no excuse to simply slide by and do whatever they want as long as kids are happy. The target audience doesn't have to be the boundary, here in the year 2013 Pokemon has gained a much wider demographic range. My hope is that events such as the return of Charizard and Mewtwo are signs that they are finally staring to realize that potential in bringing back some of the older fans who still love Pokemon. Times and priorities always change eventually. With that in mind, its never too late for Misty, Brock, or the english VA's to return if deemed beneficial.

Originally Posted by Bluelatios

Ah god, the party's already been crashed it seems. Anyways, consider the franchise as a whole. A lot of Pokemon's success comes from not only how easy people get hooked on it, but the fact that its brought so many people together and established a very long lasting fanbase. Plenty of people who have played the games, the tcg, bought merchandise, etc have been doing it for years. And the creators of these products have always paid attention to all their fans. What I see is a gold standard set by the rest of the franchise that the anime has fallen short; attentiveness to the long-term fanbase. Replacing Misty and Brock, switching up the VA's, regressing Ash in BW, these are all things that have had a negative impact on the loyal fans. And before you-know-what is said lets be frank here, with Pokemon's deep fandom roots there's really no excuse to simply slide by and do whatever they want as long as kids are happy. The target audience doesn't have to be the boundary, here in the year 2013 Pokemon has gained a much wider demographic range. My hope is that events such as the return of Charizard and Mewtwo are signs that they are finally staring to realize that potential in bringing back some of the older fans who still love Pokemon. Times and priorities always change eventually. With that in mind, its never too late for Misty, Brock, or the english VA's to return if deemed beneficial.

Honestly, I myself wish all three issues would be fixed, seeing as how that is when I felt the anime was at its peak: not only in popularity, but also in quality. The actions that have been taken over the years aren't exactly what I've enjoyed TPC doing (and TPCi when it comes to dialogue, voice acting, and dub BGM/intros). Unfortunately, I don't think TPC is concerned at all with the loyal fans or the loyal dub fans. Pokemon is unfortunately designed to be a show for children of different generations. I don't like that idea myself, but that's what it is to the producers. However, the day may soon come when the show loses enough popularity for the creators (and dubbers) to question why this has occurred, so I'm not discrediting the idea that they may re-examine why viewership has declined with each series.

Originally Posted by Bluelatios

Ah god, the party's already been crashed it seems. Anyways, consider the franchise as a whole. A lot of Pokemon's success comes from not only how easy people get hooked on it, but the fact that its brought so many people together and established a very long lasting fanbase. Plenty of people who have played the games, the tcg, bought merchandise, etc have been doing it for years. And the creators of these products have always paid attention to all their fans. What I see is a gold standard set by the rest of the franchise that the anime has fallen short; attentiveness to the long-term fanbase. Replacing Misty and Brock, switching up the VA's, regressing Ash in BW, these are all things that have had a negative impact on the loyal fans. And before you-know-what is said lets be frank here, with Pokemon's deep fandom roots there's really no excuse to simply slide by and do whatever they want as long as kids are happy. The target audience doesn't have to be the boundary, here in the year 2013 Pokemon has gained a much wider demographic range. My hope is that events such as the return of Charizard and Mewtwo are signs that they are finally staring to realize that potential in bringing back some of the older fans who still love Pokemon. Times and priorities always change eventually. With that in mind, its never too late for Misty, Brock, or the english VA's to return if deemed beneficial.

And...for the last time, MOST PEOPLE do not care that Misty and Brock are gone. This is the same Brock that was poorly received in DP and people wanted gone back when AG was airing. This is the same Misty who was phased out of the anime entirely not only because of the reception of the character and during johto, but also because of the success of May, the Contest episodes, and later Dawn. The writers have actually been avoiding Misty over these last 10 years. They've blatantly given water-centered episodes in AG and DP to other characters.

Also, bringing up Charizard is pointless, because he'll obviously be gone again once the 6th gen anime starts. Charizard is obviously not staying on Ash's team permanantly till the time it ends. That is common sense to everyone.

As for Mewtwo, he's likely only in the movie because Genosect was created by Team Plasma with a similar story to Mewtwo. Likewise Mew returned in the 8th movie, and Celebi was in the 13th...so old legendaries returning for a second movie is nothing new.

@Gotpika; There has to be more to the ratings drop than just natural progression, if it was a minimal drop each time I would agree, though.

@Misty Calls Masquerain; Every show in Japan's ratings have dropped. People just aren't watching tv like they used to, Pokemon isn't a show watched for its quality or content. Children, the one's by which ratings are measured by, simply tune in and tune out. During Pokemon one-hour specials the ratings spike, like during the Roxie special.


EDIT:

*Reads blog*

God dammit, why has this blog turned into another Misty debate?!

@Gotpika; I know that, but there have to me more subtle factors, ratings plummeted after the voice changed. Also, children are not the ONLY audience that exists, and they know that.

@Misty Calls Masquerain; True, kids aren't the only audience that exist, but in the grand scheme of things they're the only audience that matters since TV ratings are measured increments of 6-11, 9-14, 9-13, 2-11, etc. and more in accordance to what audience advertisers want to market their product toward. For example, Hasbro won't want to air Transformers cartoon ads during an episode of South Park because young children, the ones that fawn and pine for these toys, won't be watching. Children don't care about the voice change, nor does Misty or any other character leaving the show have an impact on it. Pokemon isn't a show watched for its writing like anime aimed at an older audience like Steins;Gate, DURARARA!, or Madoka. It's written for children and marketed at children and finds its success in its immense amounts of merchandise and thrives off quick, spunky quick plot-lines daily and isn't a deep show. The VA change had nothing to do with it, Misty leaving had nothing to do with it, bad writing has nothing to do with it, Pokemon just has lower ratings because, as said before, like every other show in Japan it's simply losing steam and that doesn't equate to pushing the panic button thinking the show's doing bad. It's doing perfectly well and BW ranks in the top 10 highest rated Anime in Japan weekly. So, yeah, any point about the ratings dropping for any skewered fandom nerd nonsense is a load of crock and shouldn't be taken seriously in the slightest. Because the writers don't write this show for nerds.

@Gotpika; You're correct, but they can expand their audience. Many other kids shows have good adult reception and very little criticism (coughAvatarcough). My proof isn't one of those *official articles* made by a bitter fan, I have actual ratings of Advanced Battle (Kids WB) and Battle Frontier (CN) on my other computer, I'll show em to you.

Possible double post:

MLP is intended for little girls and that doesn't stop bronies (adult makes) from buying all the merchandise, and that once had a bad rep. There's no reason Pokemon can't get rid of it's "kiddy" rep and do the same.

Originally Posted by Gotpika

God dammit, why has this blog turned into another Misty debate?!

These threads only turn into Misty debates because they keep using her in terms of their arguments. Considering Brock actually stayed past Johto and it felt like nobody cared past AG for him, it makes no difference.

The original trio isn't a, "be all, end all" for group dynamics. The only group that lacked chemistry for me was the DP trio, and again I place the blame on the lack of chemistry between Dawn and Brock for that.

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

The only group that lacked chemistry for me was the DP trio, and again I place the blame on the lack of chemistry between Dawn and Brock for that.

Well...yeah, I completely agree. Ash and Dawn had excellent character chemistry, but Brock and Dawn had nothing at all...

You brought up Misty first, @pokemon fan 132; and the others didn't bring her up until you mentioned her by name. The blog did mention her first, but she wasn't the main focus.

On-topic: What they need is something more in tone to the BW2 trailer

Originally Posted by Misty Calls Masquerain

You brought up Misty first, @pokemon fan 132; and the others didn't bring her up until you mentioned her by name. The blog did mention her first, but she wasn't the main focus.

Its just rather obvious many people here are heavily bias about Misty, so they use her in their arguments even though it means nothing. There's a difference between simply liking Misty and trying to base the entire anime around her. Even when Misty was on the show, she got very little screentime on an episode to episode basis besides the fillers about water pokemon.

No one tried to base the anime on her, maybe certain people tried to base it on the original trio when it really wasn't (which it was) but no one claimed it was all about Misty. And of everyone that posted here, only pokemon fan 132 (and me) has Misty as a favorite character (but he's not bias), the rest have a different favorite (SSY- Brock, SonGoku- Ash Seasons 1-8, Gotpika- Iris?, etc.)

And I already told you (or maybe it was someone else) that quantity (screentime) is not quality.