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Why I guess some people idealize Red

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by , 17th August 2013 at 03:09 PM (1720 Views)
I watched the trailer and I wondered "Hey, why do people idealize Red? And why do they always compare Ash unfavorably to him?". Then it came to me.

While there are a lot of reasons why Red is represented as an overly idealized trainer [You must learn those elsewhere], I think a big reason is this: Red is Ash's foil.

A foil usually has negative traits to emphasize the protagonist's positives. But in this case, the roles are reversed. Red's positive traits are calculated specifically to highlight and make up for Ash's perceived negative traits.

Think:

  • Ash is a loudmouth, Red is always silent
  • Ash is incompetent, Red is the strongest trainer in the world
  • Ash always travels and meets new friends, Red stays in one place and has been separated from his friends for a while
  • Ash is outgoing, Red is usually portrayed as an introvert


(Disclaimer: This is using the most common portrayal of Red and is in no way a descriptor of absolutely every single depiction of Red, all of which are equally valid)

tl;dr My guess is that people idealize Red because they're unsatisfied with Ash.
Tsutarja likes this.

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  1. Reila's Avatar
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    Red is the strongest trainer in the world
    Yeah, about that...
    Life and Akromatic like this.
  2. Kree's Avatar
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    voided
  3. Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reila
    Yeah, about that...
    Yeah, what about it?
  4. Tsutarja's Avatar
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    I don't mind people being unsatisfied by Ash, but their idealization goes a bit too far.

    Why is Red the strongest trainer in the world? Red was defeated by Ethan/Lyra in HG/SS as far as I know. And what makes him so interesting? He never talks so we don't know really his personality. Pretty much 99% of the comments right now on YT are about Red being the true master and telling Ash to fuck off because of that.

    Disliking Ash? I can handle that. But every single comment dissing on Ash while praising Red is a bit too much to take. The only reason people seem to like Red is because he's so badass and because he has evolved Pokémon. It's disgusting. I like Red, but his stans are making me like him less and less.
    DashingFox likes this.
  5. Reila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kree
    Yeah, what about it?
    Red is far from being the strongest trainer in the world.
    Tsutarja likes this.
  6. Tsutarja's Avatar
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    Red being the strongest ever is yet another ridiculous overstatement made by Red worshipers.
    Reila likes this.
  7. Kree's Avatar
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    That's an aspect of Red that is common in depictions of him, so it is listed.
  8. Reila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsutarja
    Red being the strongest ever is yet another ridiculous overstatement made by Red worshipers.
    I find funny that Red worshipers love to ignore the fact that he lost to Ethan/Lyra/whoever in GSC/HGSS.

    Also the fact some of his Pokémon are far from being great.
  9. Kree's Avatar
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    ^ In-game power =/= in-story power.

    Also, Red fans make up bullshit about Red "allowing" Ethan or Lyra to win.
  10. Hurricane Kishore's Avatar
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    Ash's failure make people idolize Red so much !
    For a long time , People been waiting for a Pokemon Protagonist Who's meant succeed .
    So , I can't blame them for idolizing Red [B]Who brought them Hope ![/B]
    Off course I wonder , is it possible that Writer/Director purposely ruined Ash's character to make ''Pokemon Origin'' a hit .
    Let be honest , Everything that happen to Ash can't be an accident and there were no MARKETABLE reason behind it ether .
    So All those misfortune of Ash had to be ON PURPOSE !
  11. Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Kishore
    Ash failure make people idolize Red so much !
    For a long time , People been waiting for a Pokemon Protagonist Who's meant succeed .
    So , I can't blame them for idolizing Red Who brought them Hope !
    Holy shit, Kishore's commenting on my blog.

    I guess I can't blame them either, but overidealizing a character to the point where he becomes a broken Mary Sue is...bad.
  12. Silktree's Avatar
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    Also, Red fans make up bullshit about Red "allowing" Ethan or Lyra to win.
    They can either win or lose; no version is canon right now since no one in the games references the battle.
  13. jasonwolf's Avatar
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    I still just like game Red because thats me playing a character. Manga red is better than ash game red is better than all.
  14. Phoenixphlare's Avatar
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    Let's compare Red's feats he beat a league he was designed to win. While Ash almost beat leagues he was designed to lose (Hoenn and Sinnoh). Who's really more powerful? In most of Ash's fights he's fighting people with people using the same amount of pokes and in Leagues diverse teams. Red beat one such Team in his league while in order to win Ash has to do that around five times or more. Ash is way more powerful than Barry who in the games is inbetween red's two Mount Silver teams. Red's feat is that he beat the elite four while Ash beat the Gen III battle frontier. Who in the games is more powerful. Sure he never beat a league but you try beating a tournament in which you have to fight diverse teams which often are commanded by trainers with higher experience. Ash almost did that...TWICE!
  15. Reila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kree
    ^ In-game power =/= in-story power.
    I don't see the difference. If he isn't strong in the games, why should I believe the contrary?

    Also, Red fans make up bullshit about Red "allowing" Ethan or Lyra to win.
    Lol, I've never seen a Red fan using this argument.

    If Red allowed Lyra/Ethan to win, then one could say the same about every battle in the series.
  16. Hurricane Kishore's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Kree;bt292275]Holy shit, Kishore's commenting on my blog.

    I guess I can't blame them either, but overidealizing a character to the point where he becomes a broken Mary Sue is...bad.[/QUOTE]

    .................................Since When I become such a Big shot !
    Anyway , Let them idolize for now !
    If Red turn out to be a troll like Ash then its their loss , I don't think Ash-fan need to be so work up about it .
  17. Life's Avatar
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    Ash always travels and meets new friends, Red stays in one place and has been separated from his friends for a while
    Seriously... That's a reason to dislike Ash... Because he travels?...

    Anyways, if I see another blog about Red and Pokemon Origins I'm going to be sick.

    No offense, but there's way to many of them.
    Xita likes this.
  18. Gaga's Avatar
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    I definitely think Kree is right in that people are dissatisfied with Ash whereas Red hasn't had many (if any) moments where he was annoying, incompetent or somehow forgot things he had already learned.

    I'm no Red worshiper (try Blue ;D) but saying he's uninteresting is kinda moot as all of the protagonists from the games are deliberately bland.
    Xita and Scarlet Sky like this.
  19. Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Kishore
    .................................Since When I become such a Big shot !
    Anyway , Let them idolize for now !
    If Red turn out to be a troll like Ash then its their loss , I don't think Ash-fan need to be so work up about it .
    I'm, like, your biggest fan dude. Or the closest equivalent. Seriously, you're awesome.

    But the thing is it's the Red fans who are getting worked up about it.
  20. Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reila
    I don't see the difference. If he isn't strong in the games, why should I believe the contrary?
    Because if you use that logic, pretty much everybody is "weak" to some extent. Only the Champions are really "strong". The Elite Four all use Pokemon with a common set of weaknesses, so I guess they're not very Elite, huh?

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