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And that is why companies should never listen to their fanbase, ever!

So Game Freak fully admits in wanting to create dual third versions (it was Iwata that forced them to consider sequels) for version exclusive difficulty levels (the only Unova Link feature they have that is applicable to BW, which they admit in an interview was the reason for the dual release) doesn't warrant a complaint that they don't know what they're doing?

Of course it doesn't. They knowingly created a feature for the purpose to get more money. And in a more obvious way than version exclusives.

The notion that fans have to love everything is ridiculous. Happily accepting anything means you don't actually think about what you're given, and yet, you've got the nerve to tell people, people who are clearly devoting a lot of time on this, that they are less of a fan because they don't spew rainbows at everything created?

Sorry, but a person who actually isn't a fan wouldn't give a shit in the first place.

I heard for months that Keldeo needed a new form, one that everyone seemed to thing should make it an adult, which I thought made no sense. When they announced Resolution Form, I wasn't too thrilled, thinking that this form would be just as fans wanted: an adult Keldeo, which takes away from its role as the youngster of the swordsmen. But when the form was revealed, I was happy they didn't go that way

Oh, and like I've been saying to other users who posted on this blog, maybe you wouldn't be so surprised if you didn't assume this fandom only had one train of thought and realized that differing opinions exist (and often, the contrasting opinions actually come from two different groups which you somehow in your head grouped into a singular "complaint group"), and also took the time to understand their argument. Because different groups exist, they will express their disappointment at different times. They aren't people suffering from some sort of psychosis.

1. The group of people who speculated Keldeo would get a new forme, and the group that got upset that Keldeo did and the Original Dragon didn't are two different groups. The latter group did not think Keldeo required a new forme because Secret Sword facilitated its character development.

2. Keldeo's new forme was purely cosmetic, which means they wasted their time creating a new forme simply to increase the difference between BW and BW2. There is no difference from a BW Usual Form Keldeo using Secret Sword and a Resolution form Keldeo using it. So I guess when you look at it, it was an ironic compromise where Keldeo got a form, while Secret Sword was sufficient in facilitating character development. This one, I wouldn't be surprised if it pissed off both groups. Those who wanted a Keldeo form got something incredibly superficial, while those who didn't want one, got one while other things who had formes alluded to didn't.

However, the fandom let loose their disappointment, while deciding that their previous hate for the Kami trio's Therian formes had faded away, now embracing them after complaining their original formes looked too similar and that the Therian formes were pointless and just as ugly. Now, with a new form to hate, the Kami trio was much more appreciated.

And had you actually looked at the complaints, it was that the Therian formes were created to advertise the AR Searcher, did not get alluded to in BW, while other things (i.e., the Original Dragon) did but weren't in the games.

The complaint again, is Game Freak being misleading, which in retrospect isn't surprising given they fully admit to not planning what happened in BW2 until after BW.

And finally, it helps if you weren't so incredibly selective of your views given that I've seen the same people who criticize the Therian formes also praise them for their designs, so again, moot point. All you're doing is creating a rift in the fandom by throwing accusations that people aren't allowed to criticize if they're fans, and, going with that mindset, selectively remembering only their complaints. Oh, and you keep saying "I don't understand" but nearly everyone I've seen who's stated a valid complaint actually explained themselves very well, even citing words directly from Game freak (these were from the BW2 Iwata Asks interview, its easy enough to look up yourself). So, just like you can't understand, I don't understand other than maybe you aren't actually reading the posts.

@The Outrage; You seem to be acting as if the fans have the right to complain about every single flaw they find that makes the games unenjoyable.

Originally Posted by Ghetsis-Dennis

@The Outrage; You seem to be acting as if the fans have the right to complain about every single flaw they find that makes the games unenjoyable.

yes we do. We have a right to complain about bad things in stuff we pay for.

If your refigrator had problems you would complain right? No one would say that you're acting like an entitled jerk. They wouldn't say that it's the company's refrigerator and you should be grateful for what you have and not complain.

The fact that complaining about flaws in video games is still seen in such contempt proves me right in saying that video games are still seen as ''children's stuff'' by adults despite the rating.

[QUOTE=Ranger Jack Walker;bt245244]yes we do. We have a right to complain about bad things in stuff we pay for.

If your refigrator had problems you would complain right? No one would say that you're acting like an entitled jerk. They wouldn't say that it's the company's refrigerator and you should be grateful for what you have and not complain.

The fact that complaining about flaws in video games is still seen in such contempt proves me right in saying that video games are still seen as ''children's stuff'' by adults despite the rating.[/QUOTE]
But it also gives this fandom a bad name from other gamers because aren't we suppose to enjoy what we have now despite not getting what we want? We can still talk about a few cons we have with the game yet still enjoy it for what it is overall. Plus if we still continue on complaining about just about everything, it could mark the end of Pokemon as we know it because the developer can't make everyone on each side happy.

Originally Posted by Ghetsis-Dennis

But it also gives this fandom a bad name from other gamers because aren't we suppose to enjoy what we have now despite not getting what we want? We can still talk about a few cons we have with the game yet still enjoy it for what it is overall. Plus if we still continue on complaining about just about everything, it could mark the end of Pokemon as we know it because the developer can't make everyone on each side happy.

Wait, "a bad name from other gamers"? Other fandoms have problems like this as well. And the franchise won't end because of complaints, it'll end when people stop buying the games.

[QUOTE=Pyradox;bt245250]Wait, "a bad name from other gamers"? Other fandoms have problems like this as well. And the franchise won't end because of complaints, it'll end when people stop buying the games.[/QUOTE]
That's why it's a paradox, we'll look bad from other gamers, who are also from fandoms with similar problems. And there's a possibility that the people who will stop buying the games will be the ones who complained both BW games and are fed up with GF.

Originally Posted by Ghetsis-Dennis

But it also gives this fandom a bad name from other gamers because aren't we suppose to enjoy what we have now despite not getting what we want? We can still talk about a few cons we have with the game yet still enjoy it for what it is overall. Plus if we still continue on complaining about just about everything, it could mark the end of Pokemon as we know it because the developer can't make everyone on each side happy.

When the companies are trying their hardest to rip us off and make a quick buck (as evident from what Outrage already posted) we have every right to complain and we should. You can't please both sides but the fact is that both sides agree on this for once.

[QUOTE=Ranger Jack Walker;bt245260]When the companies are trying their hardest to rip us off and make a quick buck (as evident from what Outrage already posted) we have every right to complain and we should. You can't please both sides but the fact is that both sides agree on this for once.[/QUOTE]
So in other words, Gen V is more controversial than Gen III.

Originally Posted by Ghetsis-Dennis

And that is why companies should never listen to their fanbase, ever!

I agree. The people at Game Freak are just trying to do their jobs. They don't need to pander to the audience.

Originally Posted by zakisrage

I agree. The people at Game Freak are just trying to do their jobs. They don't need to pander to the audience.

So Game Freak shouldn't listen to those who pay for them? Should we, just blindly accept whatever they throw at us.

Originally Posted by The Outrage

So Game Freak fully admits in wanting to create dual third versions (it was Iwata that forced them to consider sequels) for version exclusive difficulty levels (the only Unova Link feature they have that is applicable to BW, which they admit in an interview was the reason for the dual release) doesn't warrant a complaint that they don't know what they're doing?

Of course it doesn't. They knowingly created a feature for the purpose to get more money. And in a more obvious way than version exclusives.

Well, third versions have been the trend since the start, which is what EVERYONE expected. So what if someone approached them with a different idea? They took it, didn't they? I can imagine the complaints if they hadn't....

And Difficulty Levels...these games allow you to set your own difficulty already according to how you play, so I don't get the obsession with it. I've never cleared a game without losing a few battles. And making them version exclusive is just more "play with others" at work. Besides, why would someone who wanted a harder game want the easier setting anyway?

So no, I don't see how that is a sign they don't know what they are doing. I see them trying to make sure they profit from these games, since it is somewhat new territory as far as "sequels v. third versions" go. They are a team, they all work together to achieve that final result. Anyone with a job can relate to that.

Originally Posted by The Outrage

The notion that fans have to love everything is ridiculous. Happily accepting anything means you don't actually think about what you're given, and yet, you've got the nerve to tell people, people who are clearly devoting a lot of time on this, that they are less of a fan because they don't spew rainbows at everything created?

Sorry, but a person who actually isn't a fan wouldn't give a shit in the first place.

I never said that fans have to love everything. I said people who have nothing positive to say about the games, Game Freak, or Pokemon in general would probably be better off getting out of the series than sticking around just to complain about EVERYTHING, and note I said "EVERYTHING". I have my issues here and there, everybody does. I doubt anyone loves everything about Pokemon. I personally don't care for the Ranger games or the Mystery Dungeon games, not that they're bad, I just mostly like the main series. But I don't go out of my way to make every post I make negative and derogatory towards Game Freak, Nintendo or anyone else. Those are the people I'm talking about, the ones that will drag GF's name through the mud, but then turn around and buy the very game they just finished bashing.

I'm all for people voicing their opinions, but "Game Freak sucks" or anything along those lines is uncalled for, immature, and pointless.

Originally Posted by The Outrage

Oh, and like I've been saying to other users who posted on this blog, maybe you wouldn't be so surprised if you didn't assume this fandom only had one train of thought and realized that differing opinions exist (and often, the contrasting opinions actually come from two different groups which you somehow in your head grouped into a singular "complaint group"), and also took the time to understand their argument. Because different groups exist, they will express their disappointment at different times. They aren't people suffering from some sort of psychosis.

I'm talking about the same old thing, everytime a new Pokemon or new forme is introduced, people attack it. Every. Single. Time. But the minute something else comes after, what was someone's least favorite Pokemon is now "growing on" them. That's the main point, but the other is people assuming they know what Game Freak is planning to do with a Pokemon and acting as if they know more about these characters than GF themselves.

Originally Posted by The Outrage

1. The group of people who speculated Keldeo would get a new forme, and the group that got upset that Keldeo did and the Original Dragon didn't are two different groups. The latter group did not think Keldeo required a new forme because Secret Sword facilitated its character development.

There were flaws with the entire Original Dragon thing from the beginning. I explained my reasoning for why the OD would probably not appear ever, but was basically told it WOULD be in B2W2. People forced their own theory about what would happen and had little doubt, if any at all, that things would happen differently. When it didn't happen, it was Game Freak who screwed up, not the people trying to think for Game Freak by setting themselves up to be disappointed. So I question why someone would expect an entirely new Pokemon to appear mid-generation, when we already knew B2W2 would be compatible with BW because Freeze Shock and Ice Burn were in BW. If it were to have appeared, it would have had to have been a Kyurem forme, which made less sense considering Kyurem's name, and the promotion of Black Kyurem and White Kyurem.

Originally Posted by The Outrage

2. Keldeo's new forme was purely cosmetic, which means they wasted their time creating a new forme simply to increase the difference between BW and BW2. There is no difference from a BW Usual Form Keldeo using Secret Sword and a Resolution form Keldeo using it. So I guess when you look at it, it was an ironic compromise where Keldeo got a form, while Secret Sword was sufficient in facilitating character development. This one, I wouldn't be surprised if it pissed off both groups. Those who wanted a Keldeo form got something incredibly superficial, while those who didn't want one, got one while other things who had formes alluded to didn't.

I believe Keldeo's form suits it. No, it doesn't need the form to use Secret Sword, but I think it represents how people have skills or talents they can use if they believe in themselves. Sometimes confidence in yourself is the only thing stopping you from achieving that "higher level", like Keldeo's fear of Kyurem.

Originally Posted by The Outrage

And had you actually looked at the complaints, it was that the Therian formes were created to advertise the AR Searcher, did not get alluded to in BW, while other things (i.e., the Original Dragon) did but weren't in the games.

The complaint again, is Game Freak being misleading, which in retrospect isn't surprising given they fully admit to not planning what happened in BW2 until after BW.

I'm aware of this, but still saw comments about how bad the designs were. The OD split itself appeared to me to be too important to the story to be something that could be reversed. Otherwise, why is there a whole indepth legend about how important that event was?

I was never mislead by Game Freak, because the majority of what I assumed would happen did happen, and the things I thought wouldn't happen didn't happen. The only people who seem to think they were misleading folks are people who jumped to conclusions, assuming that what they expected to happen were definitely going to happen. It just seems to me people were mad only because they were wrong.

Originally Posted by The Outrage

And finally, it helps if you weren't so incredibly selective of your views given that I've seen the same people who criticize the Therian formes also praise them for their designs, so again, moot point. All you're doing is creating a rift in the fandom by throwing accusations that people aren't allowed to criticize if they're fans, and, going with that mindset, selectively remembering only their complaints. Oh, and you keep saying "I don't understand" but nearly everyone I've seen who's stated a valid complaint actually explained themselves very well, even citing words directly from Game freak (these were from the BW2 Iwata Asks interview, its easy enough to look up yourself). So, just like you can't understand, I don't understand other than maybe you aren't actually reading the posts.

Like I said before, I don't care if people criticize things. It can lead to a good debate. I'm mainly talking about people who constantly, over and over again, say how crappy something is without giving a proper reason. It's not about people liking everything, it's about people liking nothing. That was the entire point of this blog, people posting nothing but negative comments. Absolutely nothing positive. That is were I question the fandom.

I also haven't seen many of these comments you mentioned, but I don't doubt they're out there. But most of the ones I've personally seen were far from informative or well thought out.

Originally Posted by Ranger Jack Walker

yes we do. We have a right to complain about bad things in stuff we pay for.

If your refigrator had problems you would complain right? No one would say that you're acting like an entitled jerk. They wouldn't say that it's the company's refrigerator and you should be grateful for what you have and not complain.

The fact that complaining about flaws in video games is still seen in such contempt proves me right in saying that video games are still seen as ''children's stuff'' by adults despite the rating.

Well, I think a refrigerator is tad more important than some video game.

The problem is that fan complaints tend to lean more towards just displeasure with the game's content, rather than say programming errors or things like that. Things like a certain Pokemon not appearing in 1 particular version, or a character's design...things like that are strictly opinions. The complaints about the Zoroark bug would not have bothered me so much if people had not suggested it was intentionally left in there to SPECIFICALLY screw with players. It also didn't help that the same people who were mad that a bug like that got through the check, were saying that the unfinished outcome caused by the bug was a better ending than the actual one. I still don't believe they deserved as much hate for it as they got. Yes, they should have caught it, but I think some people over-reacted.

Originally Posted by Ranger Jack Walker

So Game Freak shouldn't listen to those who pay for them? Should we, just blindly accept whatever they throw at us.

Don't like the games, then don't buy them. That's fairly simple. But people don't need to get on the internet, talk about how disappointed they are in a game, but then go buy it anyway, only to come back and complain that they were ripped off or deceived after knowing exactly what they were buying. No one is forced to buy these games, so no one is being ripped off. If you think the games suck, but you buy them anyway, you've ripped yourself off.