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  1. Teapot Salty's Avatar
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    SPOILER ALERT!!!!!





    You made me love gardevoir. Thanks
  2. Phoenixphlare's Avatar
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    Gen V had the most badass designs and as a male in a country influence by "solar phallic" religions I appreciate that or I just like badass things. Everything else seems meh by comparision.
  3. Bolt the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grass Type Warrior
    N insists on fighting you honorably in a Reshiram vs Zekrom duel. Not only is this absolutely stupid and unnecessary, it threatens Ghetsis' whole damn plan. Now, I get N's motivations. He's confused because you're showing him that everything he knew up to that point may be wrong. The fact that he wants to settle it in an epic Pokemon battle is a little weird considering his views on battling in general, but okay, I'll let it slide.

    Ghetsis, however, should have put a stop to N's foolishness right then and there. As N's father figure, he was in a prime position to manipulate him into just stopping. This was important because, again, he was leaving the fate of his evil plan to chance. Yet, if he did try to stop N, we didn't see it. Therefore, we can't simply assume that he did. All we know for sure is what we're shown, which doesn't include Ghetsis trying to dissuade N from battling you. In fact, at certain points, he outright helps you find your version exclusive dragon by giving you hints as to where he might be. He even seems to support the idea of having you battle N for control of the fate of Unova, which just baffles me. Considering what a magnificent bastard Ghetsis is supposed to be, I found this to be incredibly sloppy of him.
    The whole point behind their plan was for N to be recognized as a legendary hero of Unova as the two brothers were. The battle is supposed to represent the brothers' battle, N's victory would have meant that his (and consequently Team Plasma's) views are superior, and it would make a strong case towards many of Unova's residents to release their Pokemon.

    And to be fair, what else were they supposed to do? They couldn't very well just let you waltz into N's Castle and put a stop to everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grass Type Warrior
    Five generations in, I didn't mind the "fresh start" as much in these games as I did in, say, Hoenn. It wasn't something absolutely terrible for me, but it wasn't something amazing either, it was just there. This may be exacerbated by the fact that older Generation Pokemon show up in the post game, as does backwards compatibility, so I didn't mind too much.
    I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. The "fresh start" did more harm than good IMO, the new Pokemon took too much inspiration from past games to create the feeling they were going for (especially the Pokemon like Woobat, Boldore, Timburr, and Frillish which are clearly based off the usual Com Mons), and they removed several important gameplay features like the Vs. Seeker that really added to the gameplay, and their removal made the games feel shallower than their past gen counterparts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grass Type Warrior
    As for competitive battling, if I'm being honest, I judge my liking of a particular Generation's competitive scene based on how well it treats my favorite Pokemon. This Generation saw my favorite Pokemon, Venusaur, finally reach and stay in OU, which was great. If you don't think DW abilities were significant, I implore you to take a look at the effect that DW Ninetales/Politoed/Blaziken/Dragonite had in the metagame. They were a pretty big deal.
    I'm not really into competitive battling, and the DW abilities don't really add much to the rest of the game. Especially in BW1 where none of them can be obtained in normal play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grass Type Warrior
    In all honesty, I would have preferred a re-imagining of Gen I over a remake. However, that's not what we got. What we got was a remake and, taking that into consideration, it did a great job of fixing most of the mechanical issues. You're right in that they didn't have many good options to deal with Psychic types until the post-game, but at least Ghost type moves were super effective against them instead of the other way around. That's the kind of thing I was referring to.
    True, sticking to a pure remake that stuck with the originals' framework really killed any kind of potential this game would've had. I really wish they'd have done something more in the vein of BW2 with changes to the Pokedex, a better plot, changes to the regional design, that sort of remake is what Kanto needed (and still does need) to be brought up to current gen standards.
  4. The Outrage's Avatar
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    That was literally the line I was referring to. Why he's admin and not the guy in the power plant who refused to get out of your way after you beat him, resulting in Team Flare siphoning all the energy they needed (note: the giant flower thingy is now powered by a 3000 year old legendary, countless Pokemon Team Flare captured, and the equivalent amount of energy to power over half of Lumiose for the first part of the game)
  5. Karamazov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outrage
    I
    And why was there no criticism of that in XY? There were literally admin-level Team Flare members who outright tell you what to do
    Sorry, this reminded me of this post I found on Tumblr.

  6. The Outrage's Avatar
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    I don't see why you criticize N for outright telling you he's buying time for his colleagues' escape. Its perfectly in character for him to do so and its no different from when any other trainer goes "I'm going to hold you up with a battle!". Like, what's stopping Red from outright refusing to battle any of the grunts? If you say its because they'll get their Pokemon to stop you, that's probably what N would do as well.

    And why was there no criticism of that in XY? There were literally admin-level Team Flare members who outright tell you what to do. Lysandre even goes "I'm going to totes stall you while I steal the Legendary Pokemon's energy" and then it gets worse because he was trying to stall you and didn't bother using his Mega Evolution. I don't know, Lysandre. Don't you think Mega Gyarados would have been able to stall the player more? And why not just try standing in the doorway. Why would you let the character run? I mean, one of your Flare grunts actually stood in the player's way making them take a detour.

    Sure, maybe you were confident that the PC wouldn't get through the big giant locked door....but then Shauna somehow has this magical device eluded to earlier because she just happens to have been bff's with Clemont and Bonnie. Considering all these moments, I don't see how it's any better handled than BW.

    Oh, and why did you need to steal all those Pokeballs? You're fucking rich and each member apparently paid P5,000,000 to get in. You know how many Pokeballs that would have bought without alerting the authorities?

    Lastly a convoluted plot doesn't mean its good, and I just finished playing through the Flare plot. I did not find it at all intricate. Interesting motivation behind Lysandre, but not at all intricate. If anything, Ghetsis wins for coming up with the most convoluted plot by finding a random child who can speak to Pokemon, manipulate his world views as he grows up, and then make him king and find a bunch of followers for him so he can separate Pokemon and humans just so you could take over Unova (and I'm guessing the world at some point).

    Lysandre was just literally "there are too many fucking people for this world to support, kill them all! Kill all Pokemon so there won't be any weapons even though this giant thing, while powered by a Pokemon, is a weapon but NOT a Pokemon!" I mean, Lysandre actually looks like a certain ex-bmgf user who was so concerned about overpopulation that he supported gay marriage only because, in his view, it would result in a large enough population decline that the world won't be overpopulated.

    Though, I gotta hand it to GF, they made pretty interesting no-name NPC's and gave Looker a nice story.

    Pretty sure you just answered your first question with your second question. If the first time it didn't have enough power.....why do you think they got more Pokemon?
    Updated 23rd October 2013 at 09:57 PM by The Outrage
  7. Karamazov's Avatar
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    I don't mean to press, but you're mistaken.

    . And yours are in no way invalid, but they differ from my opinion, and I still reaffirm my belief that those scenes were poorly handled. If they hadn't been, we wouldn't have such vastly differing opinions of the scenes.
    Just because two people look at it so differently, doesn't mean it's poorly-handled. It just means that you're looking at it differently. And yeah, I'm just making interpretations based on what I see. I don't mean to seem rude or call you stupid or anything, and maybe they could have done a better job of explaining things without exposition. But applying critical thinking or interpretation is a great way to enjoy the plot, and they should allow you to apply such thought because they shouldn't have to spell everything out. Letting the audience get an idea of what's going on by being given the information they need, without having to tell them.

    Not that I'm saying I'm 100% right with my ideas. But ambiguity or lack of details doesn't necessarily mean poor writing or bad plot.

    As a sidenote, I don't care if she's a Gym leader, Elesa's not one to decide the fate of Bianca for her father. In point of fact, she asserted her authority over him. She didn't just come in and argue in favor of Bianca (that came later.) The very first words out of her mouth were that Bianca would continue on her Pokemon journey. More of a command than a suggestion, really. I don't care if she is a gym leader, she had no right to do that. Also choppy and super random was introducing herself as a gym leader...and also a model. The line had no bearing to the conversation felt shoehorned for no reason other than to give us that bit of insight (which could have been better placed elsewhere.)
    I feel that you're taking things at face value.

    "Sweetie, you keep going on your travels."

    Elesa's saying 'sweetie,' taking a caring tone. She's not telling Bianca's dad "Let your daughter go on her journey," she's defending Bianca's choice. Just because she phrased it as a command doesn't mean she's telling people what to do. (I know that sounds weird.) Look at the dialogue again. She's not saying "Mr. Bianca's Dad, I refuse to let you get in the way of your daughter's journey." She's basically saying "I understand you're worried, but Pokemon are cool as shit and your daughter will be safe and happy with them." She's voicing her opinion and ideas and yes, she's meddling. But she's not forcing her dad into anything.

    Bianca's dad: "Hey! Who do you think you are? This is a family matter!"
    Elesa: "My name is Elesa. I'm this town's Gym Leader. I also happen to be a model."

    The model line was random and stupid, but yeah, she's the Gym Leader. That's establishing that she actually knows about Pokemon, it comes with the job. It's also part of the job to help trainers.

    "Did I meddle unnecessarily? You looked troubled, so I decided to chime in."

    And more reason as to why she stepped in: she was concerned and wanted to help. Just because it was a family matter doesn't mean she should just ignore it, especially since she knew what she was talking about and Bianca's dad was asserting his authority over his daughter while it should have been Bianca's decision to come home. She asserted her authority because she felt that Bianca's dad was wrong, and he was.

    Think of it this way: you see a man yelling at his 26-year-old daughter that she's not allowed to go out with her friends because she could get hurt. While he is her father, she's old enough to make her own decisions, and she already lives on her own, thus not under his roof. He barges into your bar because he's worried about his daughter, and tries to force her to come home. The girl is clearly uncomfortable, but no one is coming to her aid.

    Now you own the bar. And you know that she has friends who are looking out for her. Do you step into the situation and defend the person, or do you ignore it despite the fact that the girl clearly is in need of help, and you know how to help her? It's not just a family matter, it's a very complicated issue.
  8. Grass Type Warrior's Avatar
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    Those sound like interpretations and inferences rather than anything explicitly stated in canon.

    Which is fine, interpretations and inferences are nice to have. And yours are in no way invalid, but they differ from my opinion, and I still reaffirm my belief that those scenes were poorly handled. If they hadn't been, we wouldn't have such vastly differing opinions of the scenes.

    As a sidenote, I don't care if she's a Gym leader, Elesa's not one to decide the fate of Bianca for her father. In point of fact, she asserted her authority over him. She didn't just come in and argue in favor of Bianca (that came later.) The very first words out of her mouth were that Bianca would continue on her Pokemon journey. More of a command than a suggestion, really. I don't care if she is a gym leader, she had no right to do that. Also choppy and super random was introducing herself as a gym leader...and also a model. The line had no bearing to the conversation felt shoehorned for no reason other than to give us that bit of insight (which could have been better placed elsewhere.)
  9. Karamazov's Avatar
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    For instance, when N battles you in Nimbassa city, he outright tells you he's only doing it so that he can buy time for his minions to flee. 1. Why would he tell you that? That's a total lack of common sense right there. You could argue that he does it because he's not used to dealing with people, but that excuse is kind of weak to begin with. 2. Why would you actively fall for that? You could just ignore him and apprehend the two thugs, but you don't. Essentially, he tells you he's gonna be a decoy and you go 'lol, k' and fight him anyway. Wut?
    Because he likes the player despite them being the enemy. He has no reason to hide something from the protagonist because he sees them as their friend, especially when it doesn't make a difference either way. It's a sign of respect to tell your friend the truth, especially when you already won and face no repercussions from it.

    Then there's Elesa's interaction with Bianca and her father in Nimbassa. As glad as I am that Bianca was allowed to continue her journey, this was really none of Elesa's business, yet she literally just showed up and told Bianca's father that the latter would continue her journey. I mean, who does she think she is? It may have nothing to do with the actual plot, but it still didn't sit right with me.
    She happened to walk by and, as a concerned citizen with experience in Pokemon, would come to the poor girl's defense. It also makes sense when you consider her role as a Gym Leader, who are supposed to encourage and help challengers develop on their journeys. So yeah, even if it's not through battling, she was kind of dong her job here.

    In Castelia city, when you corner the sage (forget which one,) he states that he thought it would be amusing to build Team Plasma's HQ in front of the gym. 1. They already have a huge underground castle as an HQ, why do they need another one? This was never addressed.
    Probably because they needed a quick escape and if their castle was under the League at the time, it would take too long to get there, and they would likely be seen if they weren't hiding. As for choosing to hide in front of the Gym, comic relief.

    They said they built the HQ there, though? I thought it was a temporary hold-over they just ran into, since I remember regular NPCs living in the building.


    Ghetsis, however, should have put a stop to N's foolishness right then and there. As N's father figure, he was in a prime position to manipulate him into just stopping. This was important because, again, he was leaving the fate of his evil plan to chance. Yet, if he did try to stop N, we didn't see it. Therefore, we can't simply assume that he did. All we know for sure is what we're shown, which doesn't include Ghetsis trying to dissuade N from battling you. In fact, at certain points, he outright helps you find your version exclusive dragon by giving you hints as to where he might be. He even seems to support the idea of having you battle N for control of the fate of Unova, which just baffles me. Considering what a magnificent bastard Ghetsis is supposed to be, I found this to be incredibly sloppy of him.
    If N wins, N takes his side and it re-affirms him that Team Plasma was right and he is the hero as Ghetsis had lead him to believe. If you win, you still unleashed another legendary dragon for him to capture, and you'd be too weak from battling N to put up much of a fight.
  10. Grass Type Warrior's Avatar
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    @Bolt the Cat I was trying to be concise since I had six generations to cover, so I had to gloss over and skip some things (mainly the things I felt didn't need to much defending or criticizing in either direction.) For that, I apologize. Maybe I should do a review of each individual Generation.

    But that's besides the point. I will attempt to answer your questions to the best of my ability now.

    It seems like you were mainly judging these games on storyline than anything else, I see only about three mentions of gameplay, only one on regional design, and a couple of throwaway comments about the Pokemon. Everything else is about story.
    Let me preface this by saying that I'm a writer. As such, I tend to focus on the plot, story, and characters of a certain work, whether they are the main focus or not. In the case of Pokemon, I know the story is supposed to come second, so I don't hold it to the same standards as I would if I were to talk about something like "Buffy the Vampire Slayer," "Once Upon a Time" or "Game of Thrones." However, that doesn't mean they'll get a free pass. Disliking the story they've chosen to tell really takes away from the experience for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat
    Explain. What plot holes are you talking about? Why do you think it was handled poorly? I didn't find much wrong with BW1's story.
    Maybe 'plot holes' was the wrong term to use. I was referring more to the overall lack of common sense exhibited by Team Plasma at certain points. This mostly pertains to N and, by extension, Ghetsis, but there are a few here and there that annoyed me in general.

    For instance, when N battles you in Nimbassa city, he outright tells you he's only doing it so that he can buy time for his minions to flee. 1. Why would he tell you that? That's a total lack of common sense right there. You could argue that he does it because he's not used to dealing with people, but that excuse is kind of weak to begin with. 2. Why would you actively fall for that? You could just ignore him and apprehend the two thugs, but you don't. Essentially, he tells you he's gonna be a decoy and you go 'lol, k' and fight him anyway. Wut?

    Then there's Elesa's interaction with Bianca and her father in Nimbassa. As glad as I am that Bianca was allowed to continue her journey, this was really none of Elesa's business, yet she literally just showed up and told Bianca's father that the latter would continue her journey. I mean, who does she think she is? It may have nothing to do with the actual plot, but it still didn't sit right with me.

    In Castelia city, when you corner the sage (forget which one,) he states that he thought it would be amusing to build Team Plasma's HQ in front of the gym. 1. They already have a huge underground castle as an HQ, why do they need another one? This was never addressed. 2. He's supposed to be one of the smartest people in the world. It never occurred to him that building your evil team's HQ in front of a gym leader's place might not be the best idea? And if it did occur to him, he chose to do it anyway. Why? Out of amusement of all things? Really? This supposed 'sage' is gonna risk the whole operation because he wants to be amused? Ghetsis should have fed him to his Hydreigon right then and there.

    N insists on fighting you honorably in a Reshiram vs Zekrom duel. Not only is this absolutely stupid and unnecessary, it threatens Ghetsis' whole damn plan. Now, I get N's motivations. He's confused because you're showing him that everything he knew up to that point may be wrong. The fact that he wants to settle it in an epic Pokemon battle is a little weird considering his views on battling in general, but okay, I'll let it slide.

    Ghetsis, however, should have put a stop to N's foolishness right then and there. As N's father figure, he was in a prime position to manipulate him into just stopping. This was important because, again, he was leaving the fate of his evil plan to chance. Yet, if he did try to stop N, we didn't see it. Therefore, we can't simply assume that he did. All we know for sure is what we're shown, which doesn't include Ghetsis trying to dissuade N from battling you. In fact, at certain points, he outright helps you find your version exclusive dragon by giving you hints as to where he might be. He even seems to support the idea of having you battle N for control of the fate of Unova, which just baffles me. Considering what a magnificent bastard Ghetsis is supposed to be, I found this to be incredibly sloppy of him.

    Also, the Shadow Triad was massively underutilized in this game. And I mean, MASSIVELY. All they do is show up, lead you a few steps in the direction you were going anyway, and then leave. Oh, and they gave you the Creation Trio's orbs for no reason. They were put to much better use in the sequel.

    I could go on, but I think I've ranted enough.

    You talk about mechanics, but you don't discuss things like the game's "fresh start", the Unova Dex being restricted to new Pokemon only, the linear regional design, and things like that, which had a significant impact on the gameplay. The DW abilities didn't really add too much, especially considering that they weren't really available in BW1 without the DW. IMO, most of the changes in gameplay were significant negatives, but IDK where you stand on these kinds of things.
    Five generations in, I didn't mind the "fresh start" as much in these games as I did in, say, Hoenn. It wasn't something absolutely terrible for me, but it wasn't something amazing either, it was just there. This may be exacerbated by the fact that older Generation Pokemon show up in the post game, as does backwards compatibility, so I didn't mind too much.

    The linearity was a little annoying, but it didn't make or break the game for me. I neglected to mention it because, in my opinion, it wasn't worth mentioning.

    Not the regional design, the game was still linear as hell and the new additions to Unova didn't do much to change that. Also, it added a new problem where Pokemon and gameplay features weren't really moved around a bit to match the change in storyline pace which resulted in wonky pacing and Pokemon distribution.
    Honestly, I didn't notice the wonky pacing or Pokemon distribuiton. I was completely fine with it. Again, the linearity may have been a little bit annoying, but nothing that was worth complaining over, at least not for me. In general, I didn't really care for Unova as a region, and that wouldn't change if we had been hopping from north to west to east and back to north before going south.

    As for competitive battling, if I'm being honest, I judge my liking of a particular Generation's competitive scene based on how well it treats my favorite Pokemon. This Generation saw my favorite Pokemon, Venusaur, finally reach and stay in OU, which was great. If you don't think DW abilities were significant, I implore you to take a look at the effect that DW Ninetales/Politoed/Blaziken/Dragonite had in the metagame. They were a pretty big deal.

    I'm going to have to disagree with you that all of the issues in mechanics were fixed because the game still lacked decent options for dealing with Psychic types (until post game, at least) and still generally lacked a variety of types. To be fair, this is because the Kanto Dex itself was terrible and they wanted to keep it the same for nostalgia, but this just proves that some parts of nostalgia aren't worth revisiting.
    In all honesty, I would have preferred a re-imagining of Gen I over a remake. However, that's not what we got. What we got was a remake and, taking that into consideration, it did a great job of fixing most of the mechanical issues. You're right in that they didn't have many good options to deal with Psychic types until the post-game, but at least Ghost type moves were super effective against them instead of the other way around. That's the kind of thing I was referring to.

    Weather was not introduced in 3rd gen, it was introduced in 2nd gen. All 3rd gen did was add Hail and integrate weather into the overworld.
    I didn't say it was. I said that it built upon something that was introduced in Gen II.

    EDIT:

    My personal opinion is 4th gen > 3rd gen > 2nd gen > 5th gen > 1st gen. Not sure on 6th gen having not played XY yet, but from what I've seen of it so far, it's probably either 2nd or 3rd.
    Awesome. ^_^

    Quote Originally Posted by Mijzelffan
    It's funny that you think that because the general consensus is that gen V ruined competitive battling with its power creep and weather dominating OU.
    Well, as I said, I judge the metagame's 'awesomeness' on how well it treated my favorite Pokemon. And it treated Venusaur really well. In fact, my top 5 favorite Pokemon were all OU or UU this Gen, which was great. So maybe the weather wars got a little annoying. I didn't mind so much because I was finally using Venusaur in OU and he was an absolute beast. So yeah, in my opinion, the Gen V meta was awesome. I don't really care about the general consensus.

    I'm still waiting to see how the Gen VI meta shapes up, but so far, it looks promising (to me, at least.)
  11. AceTogeTrainer's Avatar
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    I like your reasoning but I think you're a bit too harsh on the storyline. For me in increasing order it is:
    - Gen 2 (Cons: confusing landscapes, new pokemon are sparse, Team Rocket's goal is just pathetic, Pro: really good mysterious treatment of legendaries)
    - Gen 3 (Cons: stupid villainous teams, designs were arguable worse, way too much water, Pro: more interesting cities, good battle mechanics, CONTESTS)
    - Gen 1 (They were the first so everything truly inherently good and bad about Pokemon came from it so even if it is bland compared to the others in retrospect it was an overall experience superior to the Gens 2 and 3)
    - Gen 6 (Pros: Beautiful visuals, thorough plot, interesting new additions like mega eves Cons: The post-game is just pathetic, it's only been a couple weeks and people are still in the honeymoon phase and I'm not sure if they realize how debilitating this is. I won't write the Gen off though as I think GF might have some tricks up its sleeve especially regarding the appalling lack of legendaries and generation jumping evolutions. If there are no "tricks" then this generation just feels so incomplete.)
    - Gen 5 (Pros: Very good job giving an NYC atmosphere, finally a well developed storyline from beginning to end, best thematic development, decent post-game, easy to battle over wi-fi, overall most thorough and enjoyable experience Cons: Removed a lot of those fun extra features like contests, underground, personalize-able hideouts etc., created an over-centralized metagame based on hyper offence, weather, and stealth rock)
    - Gen 4 (Pros: Great changes to battling mechanics, interesting storyline, great new evolutions, underground, best battle frontier, Cynthia being an involved Champion and the hardest to beat ever, great post-game, best treatment of many legendaries through events, the Poketch is the best tool in a pokemon game ever. Cons: None really ...)
  12. Mijzelffan's Avatar
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    mechanically, Gen V was awesome
    It's funny that you think that because the general consensus is that gen V ruined competitive battling with its power creep and weather dominating OU.
  13. Bolt the Cat's Avatar
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    It seems like you were mainly judging these games on storyline than anything else, I see only about three mentions of gameplay, only one on regional design, and a couple of throwaway comments about the Pokemon. Everything else is about story. Anyway, some specific criticisms:

    A lot of people were disappointed by Black/White 2, but I found it to be one the best Pokemon games I have ever played. My problem actually arises with Pokemon Black/White. A lot of people praise it for its thought provoking story, and indeed, it has a much deeper story than anything Gens I or II could ever muster up...

    ...But it was just so bad. I know I complained about the lack of story in the previous two posts, but I'd rather have that than what we got in Black and White. I mean, sure, discussing whether Pokemon battling is, in fact, moral and good is a great concept and all that. After four generations of taking Pokemon battles for granted, having the player question everything was a great twist and all, but it was just handled so poorly. Frankly, I had already thought about such things back when I was eleven and had made my peace with it, so the gravity of it flew over my head. But even without that, the story was just so laughably executed. The dialogue was choppy and the narmiest thing I've ever seen in a Pokemon game (and that includes Ruby/Sapphire and Diamond/Pearl,) that plot was full of holes that they did a poor job of trying to handwave, and it was overall just bad.
    Explain. What plot holes are you talking about? Why do you think it was handeld poorly? I didn't find much wrong with BW1's story.

    However, mechanically, Gen V was awesome (Chlorophyll Venusaur FTW!!!) Dream World abilities really were a game changer and, aside from the difficulty of attainability (I couldn't access the Dream World for the longest time, for instance,) really breathed new life on old Pokemon. While I wasn't a fan of some of the newer Pokemon designs, there were many that were absolutely gorgeous (Hydreigon, Serperior, Volcarona, Chandelure, I could go on.) I was disappointed with the Starters though, but not so much as to take away from the experience.
    You talk about mechanics, but you don't discuss things like the game's "fresh start", the Unova Dex being restricted to new Pokemon only, the linear regional design, and things like that, which had a significant impact on the gameplay. The DW abilities didn't really add too much, especially considering that they weren't really available in BW1 without the DW. IMO, most of the changes in gameplay were significant negatives, but IDK where you stand on these kinds of things.

    Also, BW2 pretty much fixed any and all of my gripes with the first two games. The story, while disappointing to some, was -in my opinion- much more coherent, tightly woven, and generally improved. Sure, you didn't have the moral questions posed by the first pair, but I can forgive that if the overall storytelling is far superior. White 2 remains one of my favorite Pokemon games to this day.
    Not the regional design, the game was still linear as hell and the new additions to Unova didn't do much to change that. Also, it added a new problem where Pokemon and gameplay features weren't really moved around a bit to match the change in storyline pace which resulted in wonky pacing and Pokemon distribution.

    Next, let's talk about FireRed and LeafGreen. The remakes of Generation I could not have come at a better time. With these remakes, Game Freak managed to fix just about every single problem that the original games have, bar the lack of story (also, still no canon Missingno.) They updated the franchise's flagship game to the newest generation at the time, and the games looked gorgeous. Their mechanical issues were fixed, and they also allowed us to use some of our old favorite Pokemon (Bulbasaur!!!!)
    I'm going to have to disagree with you that all of the issues in mechanics were fixed because the game still lacked decent options for dealing with Psychic types (until post game, at least) and still generally lacked a variety of types. To be fair, this is because the Kanto Dex itself was terrible and they wanted to keep it the same for nostalgia, but this just proves that some parts of nostalgia aren't worth revisiting.

    Finally, the mechanics. Aside from introducing abilities, natures and streamlining the IV system, Generation III built upon many things introduced in Gold/Silver. These include, but are not limited to: an improved berry system, battle frontier, breeding mechanics, and weather.
    Weather was not introduced in 3rd gen, it was introduced in 2nd gen. All 3rd gen did was add Hail and integrate weather into the overworld.

    EDIT:

    My personal opinion is 4th gen > 3rd gen > 2nd gen > 5th gen > 1st gen. Not sure on 6th gen having not played XY yet, but from what I've seen of it so far, it's probably either 2nd or 3rd.
    Updated 23rd October 2013 at 07:01 PM by Bolt the Cat
  14. Codface's Avatar
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    Ups yes sorry typo...I do know about iv-evs honest....:-P
  15. SharKing's Avatar
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    @Codface; You're talking about EVs. IVs are a different sort of stat modifier, a more permanent kind.
  16. Codface's Avatar
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    Yer some ivs are easy. Atk/spd is fast as can pwn purrlions/patrats. Hp is pain if no sewer water for grimers.

    Noticed no medicham on your list. Thats one of my favourites to iv train since pure power rocks with high atk iv plus ofc high jump kick. Defo one to try out especailly fun for pwt fighting only tourd .
  17. Grass Type Warrior's Avatar
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    I don't bother with IV's, honestly. If I get a good set up (like my Yanmega,) then I'm happy, but honestly, IV breeding is too much work for me. I also don't really care for shiny Pokemon. Most of the shiny sprites don't look that great to me.

    Furthermore, I haven't leveled everyone up to 100 yet. I mostly just EV them, raise them until they evolve/get all the moves they need, and then dump them in the box. I've only raised my absolute favorites to level 100.

    Not to mention that EV training is easy when you have the Power Items and Pokerus. It takes less than an hour (~30 battles against wild Pokemon) to fully EV train a single Pokemon. Breeding for Egg Moves is more time consuming (as is getting the funds to be able to purchase the Vitamins.)

    I did once defeat the Elite Four with a team of Bulbasaur, Charmander, Squirtle and Pikachu. That was incredibly fun for me.
  18. Codface's Avatar
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    I got over 700 hours and have IV bred/EV trained around 60-70 fully evolved pokemon. You must none stop EV train to have that many. Do you bother with IV breeding or just bring them over RNG from other games?

    I spent alot of my time trying for perfect/shiny eggs and messing about with builds on the PWT and would have many more if I didnt do those things.

    I really like any pokemon that doesnt just have 4 attack moves and 252 atk(satk)/spd. What would you say the most fun pokemon just for making fun of pwt or the elite 4?
  19. Grass Type Warrior's Avatar
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    459:16, according to my game.
  20. Silktree's Avatar
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    What's your playtime?
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