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  1. CrackFox's Avatar
    I don't think it's the fans giving up on Ash x Misty. I think it's the fans giving up hope that Ash could ever be interested in anything other than gym badges at this point.

    I will say, Serena is nice but she's way too thirsty.
  2. Zeb's Avatar
    tldr: some excuse to mention Misty
  3. Mako's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty
    I'm a, "oldie" when it comes to the internet. I don't use anything from 2005 onward, so no twitter, tumblr, tweet's, or any of that crap.
    Tumblr was founded in 2007, and Twitter in 2006, so they really aren't far outside the range you've established there.
  4. Dark/Legendary Master's Avatar
    There's a more positive outlook in general on there. Granted I prefer Serebii because I like a good argument and being a mod in a Soccer forum, I'm used to contentious forums (within reason).
  5. The Fighting Misty's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Reila
    So edgy

    Anyway, don't you mean "at the end of AG"? Because as much as I like Dawn, she was just an expy of May.

    A girlier version of May, to be more specific.
    Dawn, and her Contests, were still different enough from May that she was able to stand out despite having a lot of similarities to the character before her.

    It was really the characters attached to Dawn rather than Dawn herself that made her not as engaging as she should have been, like how boring the DP trio was as a group or some of her duller rivals. She did get dull during the later half of DP but that was mainly cause DP just needed to end already and was stop stretched out at that point.

    Still you have to admit, I would much rather see Serena handled the way Dawn was than see her stay as she is now.
  6. Team Gaara's Avatar
    I suppose it may also have to do with the games themselves. Unova and Kalos just don't have something on the scale of Contests that can make for a decent goal, so the writers had to take their own creative liberties with Iris. Only problem was it was never fleshed out enough and Iris was just not written well. Rhyhorn Racing could have been a thing for Serena, but the writers seem dead set on making her too girly for that, which I feel is a huge waste of potential.

    Yes, I agree with that. It annoys me to no end that even though Dawn could be girly, she wasn't as bad as Serena, who doesn't even like to be outside, much less battle or try to actually be a trainer. She seems to be the first true eye-candy character and I hate this type of female portrayal that all girls are supposed to do is look pretty and stand in the background while all the males do the real fighting (which is made worse by the fact that her Pokemon is being made to think the same way). When Brock and Cilan were the ones in charge of the map, it worked because they were older and it felt like they were given the responsibility role for the group. With Serena, it just feels like she's being Ash's Groupie. It seems the page for Game Serena referred to her hair as Honey. I suppose that is a good term for lighter than brunette and darker than blonde.
  7. Sakuraa's Avatar
    I hate Iris and everything about her, but at least they gave her more screentime than they are doing with Serena currently.

    I'm fine with Serena as she currently is to be honest. I don't mind her not catching any Pokémon yet since she doesn't have an official goal. She also has started to get into battles a bit more recently with TR. I only hope that she gets more episodes that focus on her and more screentime in regular episodes. If they can do that with her I'll be fine.
  8. The Fighting Misty's Avatar
    That's what I don't get. Ash already had the entire OS to himself which is why it was a nice change of pace to see females get their own subplots. It didn't even have to be Contests but virtually any type of secondary goal for the conpanion to do.

    I feel like Serena is basically the weaker traits of Dawn's character amplified into one being. Dawn was never passive or written as a love interest, and we girly traits were shown but never obtrusive to what she wanted to do.

    I don't get why Serena can't actually be shown to battle on the side or jump into the action. No female was ever treated like this. It's almost sexist because Serena feels like the writers are saying girls can't be as tough as boys and are there to look pretty and be cute. Also Serena is a bit of a dirty blonde hair color. She's not really brunette like May was, her hair is darker than Clemont/Bonnie but still light enough to be blonde.
  9. Team Gaara's Avatar
    Agreeing with you on this one.

    Except for the chemistry with Cilan, I agree on your points about Iris. She was presented as a character with a goal in mind, but did next to nothing to move toward said goal, resulting in being not much more than a rude background character. I was quite disappointed with this; coming off of two very feminine characters with the exact same goal, it was nice to see a supposed "wild child" with something different in mild in the group for the first few episodes, but it seems even that little trait was written out fairly early. I could hardly attribute the title of "wild child" to Iris. Maybe "Dragon Whisperer".

    Also with your points on Serena who isn't really a blonde much more than shipping fodder. I can't really compare her to Dawn, since she's much more girly than Dawn ever was. But it is highly disappointing that the writers are doing nothing with her, which is even more confusing give how much they are doing with developing Bonnie and Clemont.

    Part of me thinks it's because they want to give Ash more focus. May and Dawn's contests and training, in my opinion, always took a lot of the focus off of Ash for long periods of time, and I sort of feel like the newer female companions are given less focus to give some of it back to Ash. It's pretty much a double-edged sword, though. It isn't as bad now, since Ash is actually a good character in XY, but it was atrocious in BW when neither of the other companions are doing anything and the lead is a moron. They may also be trying to switch it up a bit and give more focus to the other male character (Clemont), as, in the past, the females usually got much more focus.
  10. pokemon fan 132's Avatar
    Speaking of older characters returning and meeting Serena.
    I would like to see May appear too, especially if RS remakes happen promoting contests. Although i also fear how writers might very well miss on this opportunity sadly just like they did with Misty during HGSS remakes or in BW2 games where they could use her to help promote World Cup making lot of sense story wise for her to nreturn and compete in it. Both because of doing it in games and because it would help her advance water master career battling strong pokemon experts there.

    But than again XY from the looks of it might not be written poor like BW was wasting on potential and rushing things up just to end up with it.

    Personally i would like to see Misty meet Serena. If anything than because they have several sharing points of both having feelings for main protagonist, certain similar traits like intelligence coming up with solutions to issues figuring things out on their own and circumstances under which they left homes originally were similar in sense of wanting to pursue their interests forming their own lives rather than living under other people restrictions(for Serena mother, and Misty sisters .

    I think it could allow for potentially very interesting meeting after realizing how both may have had similar interests when love is in question leading to initial shock and frustration coming of as subtle conflict, disbelief. Later that annoyance growing in strong friendship and sympathy from Misty side for Serena knowing how its like to have unreturned feelings for someone.
    I also think Misty headstrong, playful and curious nature knowing how to stand up for herself and others could help Serena to become more proactive, develop interest for career she wants to follow and be more confident and assertive taking role in action. Being type of person which likes to push others forward, dont approve passiveness and has rebellious attitude liking to take charge of things.
    She could travel to Kalos to catch new pokemon, promote mega Gyarados learning how to invoke its hidden strength, Come for tournament advancing her dreams and meet E4 Siewbals whon is basiucally water master teaching her how to connect with water pokemon on cloer level and master their use. Kalos is based on France which Misty dreamed of visiting fitting her adventurous and dreamer side liking fine cuisine and romance so thats another reason making sense for her to go there while progressing her own dreams of becoming top water expert.

    Increasing chances of meeting Serena and influencing plot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Mew
    There is a scene in the game where Shauna and the playable trainer watch fireworks and that can be seen in a romantic light, but neither she or Serena fall in love with the playable trainer character, so I doubt that's the reason why they added in Serena's crush on Ash.
    Ah i see, thanks for clarifying that up. Still i find it interesting how XY games had more romantic elements injected into them than it was case with previous generations, which perhaps served as template from which writers got idea in including more of love theme again in series.
  11. The Fighting Misty's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Team Gaara
    I admittedly hate Iris and do see Serena as a relief, but by no means do I like her as a character because of that.

    She still does nothing but crush on Ash and talk about fashion. While the crush thing is fine, I cannot stand her constant idiotic talk about cute clothes and designs and what not. And while I can manage that more than Iris being an asshole 99.98% of the time she spent on the show, it doesn't mean I outright thing Serena's likable.
    Just curious, do you dislike girly female characters in all the shows you watch, or just Pokemon? I notice you tend not to like characters like that given you didn't care for Dawn much, and now Serena is following in the same suit almost as if the writers are modeling her after Dawn.

    I think its just that Japan favors girls like this, or they write characters that little 5-8 year old girls would fine pretty or cute.
  12. Kyriaki's Avatar
    @Hidden Mew; I meant that if they decided to develop the romance subplot further, we'll get to see Ash involved with romance and actually get to see how he deals with love and such. Ash never had to deal with complex relationships with another girl, so that's what I meant by getting to know another side of Ash we have never seen. It's up to the writers how they develop the plot, but still, it would be interesting to see what kind of boy Ash is when it comes to romance.
  13. Hidden Mew's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by TrainerSplash
    I would also like to state that I hope at least one of the past girls, mostly May (I admit I don't like Iris but I hardly watch Best Wishes so I wouldn't know much I mean i like her but not much). Maybe if one of the older characters come back Serena would find out what she wants to do?
    I could see May and Serena clicking pretty well. May would relate to Serena being unsure about what to do and she could tell her about how she discovered Contests. That would be pretty nice and could help Serena find her own goal. I'm not sure if they'll go that route, but if we do get R/S remakes, I think that May could have a decent chance of appearing again. I doubt that they'd bring either Misty or Dawn back to talk to Serena since they wouldn't be connected to either the new generation or any potential remakes. Plus, they knew what they wanted to do before traveling with Ash. May is the only other female lead who didn't know what she wanted to do at first and used becoming a Pokemon trainer as an excuse to travel, so there's a bit more of a connection between her and Serena in that regard. I'm still hoping that Iris's special counts as her cameo since I'd be fine with her not appearing in the series again, but that's probably not going to happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Chocolate
    The reason I'm actually looking forward to a romance subplot is because they already presented that Serena and Ash have met each other in their childhood days. Serena remembered him for years. I doubt they would let her feelings for him evaporate in the middle of the series. It's the first time they had ever shown the main female lead have a serious crush on him, and this is something we had never seen before. It's new, and I like it. I like what they did with Serena.
    I doubt that her feelings will evaporate in the middle of the series, even though I wouldn't mind it if they did go that route, but the romance will be completely one-sided. It's an interesting way of establishing one of the new characters, but their relationship won't go anywhere romantically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Chocolate
    She doesn't have goals like May or Dawn, but through her, we'll probably get to know what we didn't know about Ash the past 15 years.
    I'm not sure about that. She only knew Ash during that one summer and I can't really see them using that brief time to show anything drastically new about Ash. Based on the flashback when they first met at that camp, Ash was pretty much the same. The only differences were that he was younger and didn't have his own Pokemon.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
    I could be mistaken, but doesn't Serena or it is Shauna fall in love with main protagonist in game(player)? Which leads me to inference how main reason behind writers introducing Serena as love interest for Ash is because of certain romantic elements being present in XY games. Hence leading to pokemon staff doing retcon rewriting Ash past to fit her in his life as someone he used to knew from early days(understandable, because in past Serena wasn't even created as character yet).
    There is a scene in the game where Shauna and the playable trainer watch fireworks and that can be seen in a romantic light, but neither she or Serena fall in love with the playable trainer character, so I doubt that's the reason why they added in Serena's crush on Ash.
    Updated 28th March 2014 at 07:53 PM by Hidden Mew
  14. Team Gaara's Avatar
    I admittedly hate Iris and do see Serena as a relief, but by no means do I like her as a character because of that.

    She still does nothing but crush on Ash and talk about fashion. While the crush thing is fine, I cannot stand her constant idiotic talk about cute clothes and designs and what not. And while I can manage that more than Iris being an asshole 99.98% of the time she spent on the show, it doesn't mean I outright thing Serena's likable.
  15. pokemon fan 132's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Chocolate
    The reason I'm actually looking forward to a romance subplot is because they already presented that Serena and Ash have met each other in their childhood days. Serena remembered him for years. I doubt they would let her feelings for him evaporate in the middle of the series. It's the first time they had ever shown the main female lead have a serious crush on him, and this is something we had never seen before. It's new, and I like it. I like what they did with Serena.

    She doesn't have goals like May or Dawn, but through her, we'll probably get to know what we didn't know about Ash the past 15 years.
    I could be mistaken, but doesn't Serena or it is Shauna fall in love with main protagonist in game(player)? Which leads me to inference how main reason behind writers introducing Serena as love interest for Ash is because of certain romantic elements being present in XY games. Hence leading to pokemon staff doing retcon rewriting Ash past to fit her in his life as someone he used to knew from early days(understandable, because in past Serena wasn't even created as character yet).

    Even so while in a way you could say Misty had pretty strong feelings developed over time for Ash too imo judging by blush, moments of crying when he was in danger, jealousy being posessive and admiration. I have to admit how with Serena whole crush seem to be more straightforward and present since very start with her crush not being slowly developed with time like it was case with other two girls as resuklt of growing closer as friends to other person, but rather fermeting from very beginning in her case(to be precise ever since encounter in woods) . Whether this will lead anywhere or not is up to writers(though future as far as love aspect goes dont have much prospect if her days are outnumbered by time 7th gen comes knowing practice pokemon has been doing with anyone not named Ash or TR).

    But quite frankly im not much interested in romance myself so its not a big deal for me. Im mainly interested in what pokemon beside Fennekin Serena may caught in future, expansion on her issues, past and if whole idea of not being sure herself where she belongs and what she wants to do will unfold out leading to what i could consider enjoyable and innovatibe strrategy in developing traveling companion in show.
    Since she would in way represent all those young teens, even adults who are lost in thoughts being indecisive about future and what caereer they wanna pursue. Hell many of us tend to even change career at some point in life finding ourselves in front of wall again in deciding what path to start following in our lives (i know quite a few adults who did this developing love for something new or just getting tired of previous job wanting more in their life). Serena definitely has potential for promising growth if writers played their cards right.

    As long Serena is something more than just love token who follows Ash and just wants to have him notice her, having her own desires, motivations, characterization which made her differentiate from male protagonist standing firmly on ground. As such gaining more substance and importance as character i would be fine with her.
  16. Kyriaki's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty
    Yeah, that's what I figured. People like Serena's crush on Ash and/or are hoping Ash finally notices girls. But if you look at Serena as an individual character...what is there really to go on?

    I mean both Misty and May had fairly obvious shipping subplots in their respective sagas but it wasn't the only thing about their characters and it wasn't the driving force of their roles on the show.
    Misty and May's shipping subplots were rather subtle, while Serena's crush is right there in plain sight. Misty and May didn't blush around Ash when they talked with him. They didn't bake cookies for him in the middle of the night. They didn't leave home just to see Ash. Serena didn't really have a reason to travel (her mother made her practice Rhyhorn racing, which means she probably intended to raise her daughter as a professional). Yes, Ash invited her, but she could have always turned down the invitation and simply leave after returning the handkerchief. But she decided to go with him despite having no goals or no real reason to travel. Why? Because she likes Ash and she wants to be with him. They did mention that Serena will eventually come up with something during her travels - but she still doesn't have a goal. It's probably going to take some time before she has a goal (inb4 Hoenn remakes are released and Serena takes up contests XD), but until then, I'm fine with how things are now.

    The reason I'm actually looking forward to a romance subplot is because they already presented that Serena and Ash have met each other in their childhood days. Serena remembered him for years. I doubt they would let her feelings for him evaporate in the middle of the series. It's the first time they had ever shown the main female lead have a serious crush on him, and this is something we had never seen before. It's new, and I like it. I like what they did with Serena.

    She doesn't have goals like May or Dawn, but through her, we'll probably get to know what we didn't know about Ash the past 15 years.
  17. pokemon fan 132's Avatar
    I don't know why its even assumed how everyone like Serena better than Iris? So far i prefer Iris over Serena having more identity, emotion to her and lively characterization. Iris was proactive character, entered tournaments, got involved in many episodes contributing to resolution of plot helping to advance it, had her own arcs dealing with disobedient dragons or in meeting other dragon experts learning how to conect on cloer level with dragons and read their feelings.

    Having things which defined her characterization. Sure there were moments when her development felt forced and rushed with some things ending handled poorly, but overall she was more engaging to follow so far imo. Same applies to Misty who had her own story, fears, insecurities, dreams of becoming water master, learn as much as she can about type she adores and become renowned expert. Coming of as more independent and active individual being headstrong and knowing how to stand up for herself directly impacting main story.

    With Serena granted its still abit early to make comparisons woth previous female leads because we do not know how will things unfold out for her. However so far her passive characterization and shy, subordinate approach isn't really helping her and too much dependance on Ash character lacking initiative to take charge of things on her own is taking away from depth and integrity of her character.
    Especially whole romance angle which has no future in pokemon series nor i believe writers will ever be bold enough to try to make something notable out of it being doomed to fall apart. Thus only reflecting badly on Serena character if this was main thing she had going for her. Since it would contradict with theme pokemon series promotes of being about moral values, friendship and journey where people explore world, battle and advance their dreams. As evidenced with Misty romantic feelings toward Ash or May affection toward Drew which whole presented hints and at times internal struggles inside characters because of that never evolved in something bigger ending left unfinished with no moving forward. Both because of anime limitations it found itself into lacking deep enough plot and substantial story to pull of that type of thing, but primarily because its designed primarily for small kids which aren't interested in such kind of thing.

    As such writers compensated for it in Misty, May case by also having their own motivations, plot, various dreams and flaws they needed or yet have to povercome them coming of as more realiartic and wiuth deoth characters. With love subplots serving only as additional aspect going for their characters to add more flavor to their characterization and bring new dimension to it

    Which is something desirable to happen in Serena case too, otherewise she will just end up as main protagonist extension with no real importance and substance as characters falling apart.
    Thankfully latest episode showed abit of more passion coming from Serena charcter deciding to start moving things forward on her own with pokevision eventually growing closer to Fennekin, so maybe my fears will end up to be ungrounded as writers dive deeper in Kalos series.

    Because there is whole generation ahead of her to pick things up and become more relatable and relevant character.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty
    This is the first time I've ever been underwhelmed by a new female lead from the start. Usually I get bored of the main girls towards the end of their respective sagas as they start to get stale, but I've never felt this way at the *beginning* of a saga for one of them.
    Than i guess im one of rare ones who didn't found any previous girl protagonist to become stale by end of their run. Still feeling refreshing, fun and full of endearing quirks and flaws to follow posessing potential and unfinished aspects in story which would give them required steam to continue on with their character development. Especially Misty and May who stayed constently enjoyable to me gaining new traits and depth to characterization thanks to various obstacles, new changes and development they went through enriching on personality and story. Thus preventing it from ending flanderized or one dimensional.
  18. TrainerSplash's Avatar
    I would also like to state that I hope at least one of the past girls, mostly May (I admit I don't like Iris but I hardly watch Best Wishes so I wouldn't know much I mean i like her but not much). Maybe if one of the older characters come back Serena would find out what she wants to do?
  19. The Fighting Misty's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox
    I'm sick of worrying about the female protags at this point. Personally, I liked Iris a lot and Serena isn't particularly growing on me yet, she reminds me of Dawn, a bit too overtly girly and a bit bland on the personality front. She may still grow on me though, I don't actively dislike her and I think Bonnie's presence makes up for the lack of a attractive personality in Serena.

    In terms of the crush aspect, I think it's cool that the writers are finally daring to go there 'officially', of course it wont lead to anything as it's not that kind of show but it is interesting to see how it plays out and if Ash even recognises it, my bet is that he never will and she'll eventually friendzone him anyway.
    The problem is characters last in this show at least 3-4 years, and if a character isn't good for that long its a problem. I'm largely indifferent about Serena's personality but her actual role in the anime is so underwhelming I don't know what to say.

    This is the first time I've ever been underwhelmed by a new female lead from the start. Usually I get bored of the main girls towards the end of their respective sagas as they start to get stale, but I've never felt this way at the *beginning* of a saga for one of them.

    I don't really care too much as I've only been following XY casually, but its something I've noticed.
  20. CrackFox's Avatar
    I'm sick of worrying about the female protags at this point. Personally, I liked Iris a lot and Serena isn't particularly growing on me yet, she reminds me of Dawn, a bit too overtly girly and a bit bland on the personality front. She may still grow on me though, I don't actively dislike her and I think Bonnie's presence makes up for the lack of a attractive personality in Serena.

    In terms of the crush aspect, I think it's cool that the writers are finally daring to go there 'officially', of course it wont lead to anything as it's not that kind of show but it is interesting to see how it plays out and if Ash even recognises it, my bet is that he never will and she'll eventually friendzone him anyway.
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