Ash's father, come on down!

[fruitsmoothierevenge]

I'm moving this from the GS thread.
Ash's dad. Dead? Alive? Important? Insignificant?

But - but - that doesn't make sense. That's saying, "this character is never mentioned, thus he must be important".

I'm trying to say, his dad must be important, because they would have answered it by now if it hadn't been. It would be simple to write in a character bio, "Ash's mother lives in Pallet Town, but his dad...", whatever the situation may be. They're leaving it open for a story to tell, like they did with Brock's mom coming back in the first Housou.

[Murgatroyd]

If you're going to ask about his father, why not also about his grandfather? They've been mentioned equally often: in one episode, and both in the same sentence. (In the original Japanese, of course.)

[fruitsmoothierevenge]

Oh, really? Now that's interesting. I'll have to DL it.
Now it creates a point that it's a family tradition, sort of. That's cool.

[Murgatroyd]

Admittedly, the grandfather is only mentioned once in the conversation ("You're going to be a greater trainer than your papa or grandpa!"), whereas his father is mentioned twice (the "four days" bit).

[Blackjack Palazzo]

It also begs the question if the grandfather is Delia's father or the father's father.

[Crystal Mew]

you fools.
http://cdn.digitalcity.com/amgmusic/artists/pic100/drp200/p245/p24553bg9ta.jpg THAT is Ash's dad! Hal Ketchum :)

lol totally kidding. I think they should have something on his dad in an episode sometime. or maybe even in a movie. just like you said, brocks mom was mentioned and soon enough she was in an episode. so who knows.

It should be a movie actually. Ash thinks team rocket wants his pikachu, when in all reality Giovanni is his father and just used the "get the pikachu no matter what" as an excuse to find his son. That would be an awesome movie.
:)

[Blackjack Palazzo]

Giovanni seems completely unaware that JJ&M are even after a Pikachu, though, and seems content to let them do what they want because it gets them the hell away from him.

[MondoTR]

Goku's his dad. :-p

[Jo-Jo]

I'm trying to say, his dad must be important, because they would have answered it by now if it hadn't been. It would be simple to write in a character bio, "Ash's mother lives in Pallet Town, but his dad...", whatever the situation may be. They're leaving it open for a story to tell, like they did with Brock's mom coming back in the first Housou.
But they did tell us about Brock's mom. Flint told Ash exactly what happened with her - she ran away and abandoned the family. That is a cue from which a possible interesting story could develop. I'm not sure if you can say the same for "your father took four days to get to Viridian City", which is not exactly a very exciting or telling piece of information.

On a slight tangent, I now have an image of Delia and Ash's dad growing up together in Pallet Town. Aww.

[Misty]

For the answer to this, I point you to the basis of the anime: Pokemon Red and Blue. See how the main character doesn't have a dad? Yes? That's why Ash has no father.

[creepy_kecleon]

Giovanni: Ash, i am your father
Ash: Noooooo!!!

Heh, there is a small chance that he is his father because they didn't make them meet face to face yet, know what i mean?

[WolfinOutlawAsi]

Its the Mr. Mime dammit! Ash just assumes his mom said Pokemon Trainer when really she means Pokemon. Its ALWAYS around the house doing chores.....and Ashs mom has brown hair while Ash has black hair....where did this black hair gene come from you ask?
http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/tvsea02_009.gif

Lets compare to this:

http://members.tripod.com/animefan25/images/Pokemon/ash6.jpg

Im seeing the resemblance LOLZ

[Unregistered]

I hope we never see Misty's parents either, just so people realize that family members aren't important on this show. (Well, the only exception being May and Max's family)

[nYoo]

Its the Mr. Mime dammit! Ash just assumes his mom said Pokemon Trainer when really she means Pokemon. Its ALWAYS around the house doing chores.....and Ashs mom has brown hair while Ash has black hair....where did this black hair gene come from you ask?
http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/tvsea02_009.gif

Lets compare to this:

http://members.tripod.com/animefan25/images/Pokemon/ash6.jpg

Im seeing the resemblance LOLZ"Image Hosted by tripod" How funny HAHAHAAHAHAAAA

[FabuVinny]

I hope we never see Misty's parents either, just so people realize that family members aren't important on this show. (Well, the only exception being May and Max's family)
Why are May and Max's family so much more important than Misty or Ash's family? Because they were there from the start?

This goes with what MistyIRC was saying about the games being a basis, but there is no reason for them not creating their own backstories. Because Ash is not Red.

Just look at where the anime currently is in America. Ash is going south to Mossdeep City!

[Misty]

This goes with what MistyIRC was saying about the games being a basis, but there is no reason for them not creating their own backstories. Because Ash is not Red.

I'm not saying Ash CAN'T have a father, I'm saying the basis in Red/Blue is the most likely reason he DOESN'T have one yet.

[WolfinOutlawAsi]

"Image Hosted by tripod" How funny HAHAHAAHAHAAAA

It shows up for me, it doesnt show up for you? o.O Im using firefox so that could be why ^-^()
Anyway, you get the idea, since you cant see it the first pic is a Mr. Mime, and the second is Ash. I tried to find similar expressions but Im lazy as well lolz

[Misty]

You probably have the image in your cache, so it just displays what's on your computer.

[Unregistered]

Why are May and Max's family so much more important than Misty or Ash's family? Because they were there from the start?

May's and Max's father is an important GYM leader, one said to almost be on the same level as an ELite 4 member. Their mother was even developed in the Petalburg trio episodes and in the Grand Festival.

As for Ash's family? We know of his mother that's it, who barely gets any screentime anymore. We see her line once every 70 episodes now, or sometimes even more than that. And when she DOES appear, it's not terribly important.

[BenRG]

I think that it is worth remembering that, around the time that Pokémon The Movie 3 came out on DVD in the US, there were, according to 4Kids, some tentative plans to include Ash's father in the series (in series 5 - Master Quest). This was possibly as a result of Delia's recollections of her youth in parts of the third movie. While these plans obviously didn't pan out, it does show that the script writers have been thinking seriously about spending more time on Ash's family and back story.

With this in mind, it might be premature to dismiss the little that has been said about Ash's father in the animé. Before the the show goes the way of all exhausted crazes, it may yet offer us a few surprises. :secret:

[Kthleen]

Its the Mr. Mime dammit!Mr. Mime didn't meet Delia until much later, so it's impossible.

[Nekusagi]

I have said it a million times, and I'll say it again: For me, it's all about the Diamondship. Yes, I know that it does get its basis from dubness, but how can you resist something *that cool*?

[Blackjack Palazzo]

Where in the dub does it imply Diamondshippyness? Don't get me wrong, I love it too, but it's still pretty much a ship with no evidence.

[Nekusagi]

It was hinted at in Live. And I think there's evidence, the only thing being is that it's not about who's there, but who's not there.

[fruitsmoothierevenge]

Does anyone know anything about Satoshi Tajiri's background in regards to family? It could be based on that.

I'm not saying that everyone should have the most solid backstory, but it seems like in this case Ash's father had an definite influence on him by being a trainer as opposed to a breeder, professor, etc. Everyone hates plot holes, but I personally dislike the idea of no room to expand a story as well. I think the writers have done a good thing by letting the fans theorize and then presenting the answer (hopefully).

[Blackjack Palazzo]

In the Time magazine interview with Tajiri's family, they talked to both his parents, so it couldn't be that.

[Roses Ablaze]

I think that it is worth remembering that, around the time that Pokémon The Movie 3 came out on DVD in the US, there were, according to 4Kids, some tentative plans to include Ash's father in the series (in series 5 - Master Quest). This was possibly as a result of Delia's recollections of her youth in parts of the third movie. While these plans obviously didn't pan out, it does show that the script writers have been thinking seriously about spending more time on Ash's family and back story.

With this in mind, it might be premature to dismiss the little that has been said about Ash's father in the animé. Before the the show goes the way of all exhausted crazes, it may yet offer us a few surprises. :secret:Call me cynical, but after nothing happened in Season 5, I got the impression they just told them that to either a) get the Americans to shut up or b) because they didn't want to appear rude in saying, "Who cares?" I don't have the third movie DVD on hand, but did the American producers say that they would definately reveal something in the 5th season or just maybe?

You know what would be funny though? If Mr. Ketchum just suddenly appeared one episode with no dramatic buildup or tearful reunions, and everyone just treating him like he'd been there the whole time.

[BookThrower]

It's the same think with Brock's family. We know his family but not Ash's. Pttf....thats lame =/

[Dogasu]

For the answer to this, I point you to the basis of the anime: Pokemon Red and Blue. See how the main character doesn't have a dad? Yes? That's why Ash has no father.

Thing is, neither Brock nor Misty have family members in the games either, yet they have siblings and (in Brock's case) parents. So if the anime can make up a family for these two, surely they can do the same for Ash.

[PokemonTrainerLisa]

Call me cynical, but after nothing happened in Season 5, I got the impression they just told them that to either a) get the Americans to shut up or b) because they didn't want to appear rude in saying, "Who cares?" I don't have the third movie DVD on hand, but did the American producers say that they would definately reveal something in the 5th season or just maybe?

You know what would be funny though? If Mr. Ketchum just suddenly appeared one episode with no dramatic buildup or tearful reunions, and everyone just treating him like he'd been there the whole time.
Well, I don't remember the way they said it exactly, Roses Ablaze, but on the audio commentary, I know for a fact they definitely said something about Ash's dad....

And I think they said something like, "Our Japanese counterparts have told us that we'll find out more information about Ash's dad in the 5th season."

Of course, I haven't seen the audio commentary in a while, but I think that's pretty close to what they said.

And if I remember it correctly, the way BenRG said everything in his post seemed to be pretty accurate to what they said.

So, anyway, I agree with BenRG.

Because, the way it sounded on the audio commentary made it seem like they were definitely gonna reveal something about Ash's father.

But, for some strange reason, they just didn't get around to it.

Hopefully, we'll eventually find out more about Ash's father soon though.

[fruitsmoothierevenge]

Perhaps they got caught up in making the story/plot/characters for AG.

[Nomekop Oen]

Perhaps they got caught up in making the story/plot/characters for AG.




Nah,throwing in an actual story means throwing in a resolution as well.If you happen to be one of the people who benefits the most from the series,you're not going to let that happen. =/



But we can be somewhat certain about one thing.It does look like they're saving Ho-oh for something big and will most likely involve the main series as well.That said,it seems like there should be some sort of story that's being held back for some reason or another.Then consider that Gio is the main villain of the series,he hasn't had a major role in the anime after 400+ episodes,and Mewtwo Returns really went out of it's way to keep Ash and Gio apart.....


Hey,you never know.There could be room for Ash's Dad there somewhere. ;)

[fruitsmoothierevenge]

That's true, Ho-oh is the legendary that they like to use the least. Who wants to take bets that it'll show up in the last episode? (I wouldn't mind, it would be sweet...)

How many times has Ash really seen Giovanni in the anime? A handful of times, right? It's odd, considering the people following him are from Gio's organization, and the whole Mewtwo thing.

Whoa. Thought. Do you think that he keeps Team Rocket away from him because they might figure out that he's Ash's father? This is probably unlikely... He just wants bumbling idiots to stay away... But they used to be intelligent and crafty, remember.

[Roses Ablaze]

Here's one thing I don't get - why does everyone say that they went "out of their" way to keep Ash and Gio apart? If it was really that important, then they wouldn't have each other in their presence *at all*, yet Ash and Giovanni were both out in the open in the same scene (when Mewtwo collapses).

[Nekusagi]

Yes, but Gio definitely had better things to be worrying about. And he was so insane at that point, I doubt he noticed his surroundings.
EDIT: Come to think of it, when Mewtwo collapsed (while trying to kill the energy field, right?) Gio was kinda in that one room in the cave. I think, if memory serves me right. Or the helicopter, or something. So either way..
(I just remember the bug scene and him telling Persian to shut the hell up)

[Roses Ablaze]

But that still doesn't change the fact that they failed to avoid each other completely (well, you know what I mean).

[Blackjack Palazzo]

I don't think, at the distance they were to each other, that they saw each other clearly. But let's take a moment here. Let's say for a moment that Diamondshipping is correct. Would they necessarily know what the other looked like? Giovanni seems like he would be an awfully inattentive father unless he was raising an heir, so it could stand to reason that he wouldn't have seen x child of his for many years, possibly since before x child was even born. (and this could work with *anyone* being his kid too)

[Nomekop Oen]

Yes, but Gio definitely had better things to be worrying about. And he was so insane at that point, I doubt he noticed his surroundings.
EDIT: Come to think of it, when Mewtwo collapsed (while trying to kill the energy field, right?) Gio was kinda in that one room in the cave. I think, if memory serves me right. Or the helicopter, or something. So either way..
(I just remember the bug scene and him telling Persian to shut the hell up)



All of the Bug Pokemon were causing mayhem when Ash and Co. were trying to help Mewtwo out of the force field.


Really,all of Ash and Gio's scenes in Mewtwo Returns only last for a couple of seconds while Gio is being distracted by something else.



Here are the two scenes where Gio had the "best" look at Ash.


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b192/ruin_wish/mewtwo-returns_ash_gio5.jpg

Right..... Gio really knows who that kid might've been. =/ This scene only lasts for around 8 seconds too.







Then as Gio demands that they handover Mewtwo,Brock and Misty immediately release all of their Pokemon and we get this...

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b192/ruin_wish/mewtwo-returns_ash_gio6.jpg


Brock and Misty's Pokemon keep Ash completely covered and then when Gio notices Ash carrying Mewtwo off,*BAM* the Gyarados and the other clone Pokemon attack.



So no,Ash and Giovanni have not officially met yet.

[Blackjack Palazzo]

You know...speaking of recognizing, he didn't recognize Brock and Misty as fellow Gym Leaders, so that lends credence to the 'he couldn't see them clearly' theory.

Either that or the scriptwriters plum forgot. Or they were going off the whole "GLs are completely unknown outside their towns even by other GLs even though that doesn't make a lick of sense" thing.

[Roses Ablaze]

All of the Bug Pokemon were causing mayhem when Ash and Co. were trying to help Mewtwo out of the force field.


Really,all of Ash and Gio's scenes in Mewtwo Returns only last for a couple of seconds while Gio is being distracted by something else.



Here are the two scenes where Gio had the "best" look at Ash.


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b192/ruin_wish/mewtwo-returns_ash_gio5.jpg

Right..... Gio really knows who that kid might've been. =/ This scene only lasts for around 8 seconds too.







Then as Gio demands that they handover Mewtwo,Brock and Misty immediately release all of their Pokemon and we get this...

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b192/ruin_wish/mewtwo-returns_ash_gio6.jpg


Brock and Misty's Pokemon keep Ash completely covered and then when Gio notices Ash carrying Mewtwo off,*BAM* the Gyarados and the other clone Pokemon attack.



So no,Ash and Giovanni have not officially met yet.I think you missed the point of the "completely" part of my statement. If they didn't want Ash and Gio to meet, they could've done better and they would have made a bigger deal about it (because, really, when's the last time Pokemon was subtle?). It's coincidence that they didn't get a good look at each other, nothing more.

[fruitsmoothierevenge]

Those are great pics, Nomekop. XD

I agree with Blackjack that he doesn't really have a clue if Ash could be his child or not unless he sat there, looked at him, and figured out the timeline. If it's the case, Delia would be the only one to know, and she's not talking anytime soon. (Although I do love the song "I've Got a Secret" from the musical...)

You'd think that Gym Leaders would keep track of other GLs. I can't even see how they'd run a coherant organization. Maybe once a year they have a big Gym Leader conference in Saffron or something... Or the Big Orange! Luxury...

[Blackjack Palazzo]

I agree with Blackjack that he doesn't really have a clue if Ash could be his child or not unless he sat there, looked at him, and figured out the timeline. If it's the case, Delia would be the only one to know, and she's not talking anytime soon. (Although I do love the song "I've Got a Secret" from the musical...)


I'd be willing to put money on him having more than one kid. He certainly seems the sort to 'get around', and he can more than afford to pay off the mothers/send child support.

And odds are that he wouldnt' recognize any of the kids unless he had kept in close contact, as I said.

[Groudon88]

Remember, Ash came face to face with Giovanni in Mewtwo Returns. Then how come Ash doesn't know if Gio is ash's dad?

[Kasumi]

Look at those pics, Groudon. That's certainly not face to face. And like Blacky said, even if they met face to face, that doesn't mean Giovanni would have recognized Ash.

[FabuVinny]

Wouldn't Giovanni pay more attention of he wanted an heir? Actually, maybe not if he is busy with Team Rocket. But it would make sense for him to approach Ash when he sees what a powerful trainer he is. (Whether Ash is his son or not.) Of course, Ash would say no...

Hmm. Giovanni and Delia don't appear to be in contact with each other at the moment.

[Nekusagi]

I have a big fat theory that me and a friend came up with over the phone for about an hour, but it's, well, big and fat, as well as sometimes reading like overly ambitious fanfiction (blame that on the fact I'm a hopeless romantic, and have always felt love will find a way). Rest assured, as soon as I post it on my Free Webs page (damn you and your limit of 7 pages!), I shall include a link to it in meh sig..

[Crystal Mew]

I think it would be awfully funny if Giovanni was his father. all these years its been team rocket thats been "ruining" everything for him, and all along his father was in charge.

mhmm. yep. great storyline right there!

[BenRG]

You know that a DiamondShippy storyline would inevitably turn into some kind of rewrite of the Star Wars meta-story, with Ash determined to defeat the evil in his father and return him to the good man that he was before, etc., etc...

That doesn't mean that it wouldn't be good. Heck, I wrote a 20+ chapter fanfic on the subject. I just couldn't face all the cynical laughter if they tried to do it in the canon. :rolleyes:

You know what would be funny though? If Mr. Ketchum just suddenly appeared one episode with no dramatic buildup or tearful reunions, and everyone just treating him like he'd been there the whole time.Yeah, I've thought that too. I think that it would be really funny, especially if they acknowledge the paradox by having Brock or Misty mention not having had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Ketchum before and Delia saying something like: "Oh, he must have been out at the time", as if Brock and Misty had been looking in the wrong direction to notice him every second of every day they had been staying at the Ketchum house. :XD2:

[FabuVinny]

But, but Mr. Ketchum was just out. He popped out to get some Pokésnacks a few years back. He just got delaed a bit, that's all!

[Juputoru]

Why doesn't anyone care about Jessie's father(or Misty's father(AND mother), I suppose. And Tracey's family...but I like speculating about Jessie's father more :P)? >_> I understand Ash's father being talked about more(Ash is the hero of the series, after all), but NOBODY talks about Jessie's dad. Which is strange, since Pokemon fans love to debate stuff like this...


(WILD CONSPIRACY THEORY)
Ash, Jessie, Misty, and Tracey have the same father! :O
(/WILD CONSPIRACY THEORY)


...heh, I don't actually believe that. It COULD happen, but that'd be...both strange. And oddly fitting, in the case of Jessie and Ash(since Jessie and Ash ARE more alike than anyone cares to admit. It's just that one's an evil female while the other's a good male. And Jessie's temper is far worse...or maybe I'm overanalyzing them XD). But hey, that theory's just as strange as some of the other one's I've heard(Ash's father is...Mew? Ho-oh? Prof. Oak?(sorry, Pokemopolis :P) Giovanni?(too cliched, IMO...and the writers don't seem the type to do something like that, anyway.) Lance? WTF...)


I adhere to the idea that Ash's father is some random trainer we haven't met yet. After all...
-You can't prove that Ash's dad might NOT be a random trainer. "Well...uh...it'd be nicer if Ash's dad was someone we knew already?"
-It opens the door for many more interesting stories and personalities. (Want Ash's dad to be a trainer-turned-criminal? Make up a random trainer like that, and off you go! Want Ash's dad to be a washed-up failure? That works, too. Want him to be unlike any trainer we've met before? IT'S POSSIBLE.)
-If it DOES turn out to be someone we already know..."OK, so we've met him already, but he techincally CAN be considered a random trainer. How do you know that the writers didn't put names on a dartboard and throw darts at random, or something like that?"

[Nomekop Oen]

I think it would be awfully funny if Giovanni was his father. all these years its been team rocket thats been "ruining" everything for him, and all along his father was in charge.

mhmm. yep. great storyline right there!



Well as I've mentioned before,I think it's one of the few ways they'll allow Jessie and James to FINALLY capture Pikachu.


Could you imagine them heading back to TRHQ to hand over Pikachu to Giovanni,only to find out that they've just stolen from the Boss' son? lol They'd have to give Pikachu back.



I think that alone is enough reason to have Giovanni turnout as Ash's father.XD

[FabuVinny]

They could finally capture Pikachu, and when Ash goes to get Pikachu back, he makes Team Rocket disband in the process. Well, it would start a Team Rocket arc, anyway.

What with Celebi and everything, Ash could be his own father! Better yet, Richie could be his father!

[Roses Ablaze]

Being your own father is kinda genetically impossible, though.

[Zhen Lin]

Not entirely. You'd just need to pass on the set of genes that are not from your partner/mother.

[FabuVinny]

That's why Richie makes so much more sense!

[TehSuigi]

My little theory on the subject is that Gio isn't Ash's dad, but either his uncle or a good friend of his dad's. Gio calls off TR's hunt for Pikachu once he realizes exactly who Ash is, and how close he looks to his father. Maybe Gio would give some hints as to the dad's whereabouts, thus starting a large story arc or something.

[Kasumi]

Have anyone ever thought of the posibility of Ash's father being dead? :O

[Blackjack Palazzo]

Second episode, Delia used present tense, so not really.

[Kasumi]

In the English dub or the Japanese? Because I'd take what was said in the original version.

[Blackjack Palazzo]

I'd have to see it again (with someone who knows the language).

[BenRG]

I have pulled this one from my semi-abandoned fanfic "Team Rocket Neo".

Ash and Jessie are full siblings. Ash was young enough at the time of his parents' deaths (his father was Miyamoto's husband and team partner) to be placed with Delia (his maternal aunt) without him remembering them. Because Delia disapproves of Miyamoto's decision to join Team Rocket and marry that scofflaw husband of hers, she has never told Ash that she is only his foster mother. Although she never really liked Ash's dad, she can see the resemblance, especially in his skill as a Trainer and has, on occasion, reluctantly admitted that he would have been proud of his son's abilities.

Jessie is several (at least five) years older than Ash and has some vague memories of her parents, most distorted by the trauma of their deaths when she was so young. Giovanni, as a favour to the daughter of his most trusted friends and lieutenants, allowed Jessie into TR despite her less-than-stellar performance at Pokémon Tech. Fate then intervened and turned brother and sister into enemies. This is one of the reasons why Gio rarely has dealings with Jessie anymore; realising that he, inadvertantly had put his brother and sister-in-law's children into conflict with each other is a source of great guilt and he doesn't want to have to face it.

This theory also explains how Jessie, who has claimed to be a penniless street kid, managed to get into Pokémon Tech, an exclusive fee-paying academy - She benefitted from a Team Rocket scholarship, automatically open to any children of serving or deceased members.

Maybe that is why Ash and Jessie can work together so well. Blood tells, after all. ;-)

[FabuVinny]

I'm sure many other people have thought of the possibility of him being dead. And it is as likely as anything else at the moment.

As for the above conspiracy theory, it could work. But Delia's lines in episode two didn't sound like she was reluctant to admit it. She actually sounded overjoyed. (And that is in her expression as well, so it can't be all 4Kids.)

I'm still going with Richie though, although as he is now known...Silver! (The Chronicles Silver, not the manga one.)

[The Dude]

What's wrong with the Pokemopolis school of thought?

[Roses Ablaze]

This is one of the reasons why Gio rarely has dealings with Jessie anymore; realising that he, inadvertantly had put his brother and sister-in-law's children into conflict with each other is a source of great guilt and he doesn't want to have to face it.Hrm...I don't think Gio has any guilt for anything, especially since he's just portrayed as a ruthless villain. Then again, if he were really cold and calculative, he'd've fired JessieCo by now.

[Psi Yamaneko]

It is interesting how popular the whole Giovanni theory is. . .

In the manga :black: is the son of Giovanni. . .isn't he?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v351/PsiYamaneko/Photo.jpg
(There he is with Gio and Sneasel. . .)

I guess that the manga is a different canon though.

[The Dude]

I know it's probably been mentioned many times already, but it seems that in FRLG, a Rocket commented that Giovanni's son has red hair. That really srtongly supports that idea, and goes towards disproving the Gio theory. I still stand by the Oak theory.

[Blackjack Palazzo]

But what's true in one continuity may not be true in another. Say another manga series wanted the redheaded kid to be Misty, or not to exist at all.

[Nekusagi]

Not entirely. You'd just need to pass on the set of genes that are not from your partner/mother.
Technically, he could have gone back in time to impregnate Delia.

[Psi Yamaneko]

But what's true in one continuity may not be true in another. Say another manga series wanted the redheaded kid to be Misty, or not to exist at all.

Well :black: as Gio's son also explains the G/S/C Rival's character so making it Misty would be odd, ya know? For Silver it would explain

a) his willingness to steal Pokemon
b) his hatred of "weakness"
c) his hatred of Team Rocket

and last, but certainly not least:

d) his abnormal ability to freewalk Rocket bases without being stabbed

[Nekusagi]

Well :black: as Gio's son also explains the G/S/C Rival's character so making it Misty would be odd, ya know? For Silver it would explain

a) his willingness to steal Pokemon
b) his hatred of "weakness"
c) his hatred of Team Rocket

and last, but certainly not least:

d) his abnormal ability to freewalk Rocket bases without being stabbed
Not necessarily. Remember, TR's security has issues.
And why would someone hate TR if their dad ran it? (I'm asking this under the stipulation that it's known, so don't try to de-Diamondshipper me by calling me a hypocrite)

[FabuVinny]

His dad spends too much time there, and so he grew bitter?

Technically, he could have gone back in time to impregnate Delia.

That's what Celebi is for. I'm sure I've already said that on this thread.

[Psi Yamaneko]

Not necessarily. Remember, TR's security has issues.
And why would someone hate TR if their dad ran it? (I'm asking this under the stipulation that it's known, so don't try to de-Diamondshipper me by calling me a hypocrite)

Eh? Hypocrite!

Kidding.

Well in the manga I believe he was sort of spirited away as a child by Giovanni and when he learned of this he got understandably bitter. So he wasn't Gio's son by birth (which means Giovanni and Delia COULD still be an item, eh? If she got Ash and he still wanted a kid. . .). And I doubt Giovanni is a very good parental unit, either. ^^;

[Barb]

Regarding the question: why would someone hate TR if their dad ran it? Not everyone wants to enter the family business. Michael Corleone comes to mind (but that's because I've been watching Turner Classic Movies).

[Nekusagi]

Yeh, but if they're as much a bastard as their father....

[Psi Yamaneko]

Yeh, but if they're as much a bastard as their father....

Silver isn't a BASTARD. In the manga he's more wonked!vigilante. XD And in the game. . .He is nice at the end, aye? Boy HAS a heart.

[Nekusagi]

I'm talking anime Silver.

Considering I started this whole Diamondship flamewar...
(smacks head)

[The Dude]

Diamondshipping should crawl up in a hole and die. Ash is Proffesor Oak's illegitimate son.

[Blackjack Palazzo]

Hey now, none of that.

[Psi Yamaneko]

I'm talking anime Silver.

Considering I started this whole Diamondship flamewar...
(smacks head)

Has Silver even BEEN in the anime? o.o

[Blackjack Palazzo]

He was in the shot in your icon, and that was it.

[Psi Yamaneko]

Oh, good. Thought I missed something. XD

[Nekusagi]

Diamondshipping should crawl up in a hole and die. Ash is Proffesor Oak's illegitimate son.

Play nice now, Sceptile. Maybe I think the same about Eldershipping, but you won't see me flaming anyone about it..

[Kanon]

I heard many theories about his father. Some are really funny, for example: Ash's father is Ho-oH XD
My theory is easy and not so magical. I think, his father is a normal dude who left Delia long time ago. Probably he works somewhere or maybe he died.

About Silver, yeah^^ Probably he is Giovanni's son. Only... who is his mother? Probably red haired woman or blonde...

[Princess Ketchum]

I Wonderd who ash's father is ?? Though he could be prof.oak

[Nekusagi]

I Wonderd who ash's father is ?? Though he could be prof.oak
Umm... see previous pages for theories. (Waves evil GiovannixDelia flag)

[FabuVinny]

ElderShipping seems to point at their relationship growing after whatever happened to Ash's dad, to me anyway.

[Mysty]

I agree Vinny. As much I I think it would be fun to have Professor Oak be Ash's father, your way works better.

[Sapphire Luna]

I'm pretty sure that the GSC rival (is Silver his official name?
)iis Gio's son. I wish they would elaborate on this.. ;/ But I bet we'll never see him again.

As for Ash's father, I bet he left to be a Pokemon master, failed miserably and was to ashamed to show his face again. The end.

[FabuVinny]

Giovanni could have had two sons. Again, that produces plenty of plot potentail.

And would he be like Flint? Something tells me no, but I couldn't give any evidence to back that up.

[Maxim Gwanjangnim]

Oak cannot be Ash's father! Becauuse he is a Gary's GRANDFATHER! So, if Oak would be the Ash's father, ash would be much older than Gary and be Gary's father or uncle! IT IS IMPOSSIBLE!!!
I bet it's Giovanni.

[Haine]

Where do you get that logic when his Mom is so young? Just because Oak is old does not mean he could not have knocked up a young girl.

However, I do not think Oak is Ash's Dad.

[FabuVinny]

I think it is mainly from her looks.

Oak cannot be Ash's father! Becauuse he is a Gary's GRANDFATHER! So, if Oak would be the Ash's father, ash would be much older than Gary and be Gary's father or uncle! IT IS IMPOSSIBLE!!!
There would be an age difference between Delia and Gary's mother, certainly, but it is theoretically possible for Oak to have a son and grandson at the same age.

[peanutbuttermewtwo]

Argh, you're gonna kick me for not being able to remember what book I read this in. It was an early one I found translated somewhere. ugh. Anyway, the jist of the thing was that Hanako married and had her son when she was eighteen. His father is trainer who is, like his son, off training. "It's natural for a mother to put off her own training until her child is done. After all, Hanako thinks so." (end maternal brainwashing)

[Roses Ablaze]

I think there's been some speculation as to whether or not that book can be considered canon, though. Somewhere I've heard that the person who wrote it wasn't really supposed to publish it.

[Maxim Gwanjangnim]

There would be an age difference between Delia and Gary's mother, certainly, but it is theoretically possible for Oak to have a son and grandson at the same age.
It is not logic and not possible! Delia would be much older thank Oak, but she is younger. It is impossible that son and grandson are at the same age! IMPOSSIBLE!!! Oak is too old to having so young kid! And Oak is too old to having grandson at the same age as son. The rumor that Oak is Ash's dad is so stupid, unlogic and idiotic!

[peanutbuttermewtvo]

I had a classmate all through highschool whose father was over eighty. Twice the age of my own father, and at least twenty years the senior of his wife.

Delia isnt Gary's mother (Oak created Gary in the lab --XD) and the kids aren't twins (or ARE they?) so it's perfectly possible for the professer's daughter to pregnant at the same time as his semilegal honeybunny.

I'm not supporting ANY theories here, just playing along. *grin*

Actually, it's my theory that Ash is a robot, and therefore is parentless. He is the ultimate tamagotchi.

[FabuVinny]

Let's work this out. Oak is fifty. He was fourty when Ash and Gary were born. If he had a son or daughter at twenty, then they would have been twenty when they had Gary. Meanwhile, at the age of 39, it is perfectly possible for him to have impregnated his lover. And that only takes one of into account the age of one of Gary's parents.

Not that I do believe it, but Maxim has shown no evidence for it being "stupid, unlogic(al) and idiotic."

[Joey]

I think Ash's dad is Ritchie.

It all makes sense. See, Ritchie isn't actually the same age as Ash. He's actually much much older. However, he has contracted a rare disease that has caused him to revert in age. Now, of course this disease is sexually transmitted, so Delia has caught it too, explaining her mysterous deaging. However, the two broke up, and after time Delia went to Professor Oak, and possibly transmitted the disease to him as well.

Yeah... I don't know where that came from.

[FabuVinny]

No, you see Ritchie grows up to become more friendly with that Celebi he met. Then, after a complicated storylne where he goes back on time, loses his memory and meets Jimmy's rival, he has a one-night stand with Delia. Ten years later, he unknowingly meets his younger self while going after a Moltres...

...yeah.

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if the two were closely related in some way.

[Nekusagi]

*This* is why I Diamondship. No weird age things to explain away in defense, no grandsons to worry about, just Giovanni is Ash's father. Plain and simple. (Plus, it's cool.)

You Eldershippers just make things harder on yourselves, you realize that, right?

(Ducks to avoid inevitable flamewar to come)

[FabuVinny]

But why would Delia let Giovanni get her pregnant?

[Blackjack Palazzo]

Maybe she didn't know about his big secret. Remember, to the rest of the world, he's just a successful businessman and powerful trainer.

[FabuVinny]

But even so, and even assuming that DiamondShipping is correct, why would she?

Meh. Giovanni is possible, but age is really no issue for Oak. He proably had a normal family, and then just got his lover pregnant.

[PokemonTrainerLisa]

Well, I still go with my own theory, which I think is very reasonable and possible.

And that means it's either number 1 or it's number 2 (not sure which)....

1. Ash's father is also a trainer like Ash, maybe an average trainer or something, one who maybe wanted to become a Pokemon Master, tried, and failed, but didn't feel like coming home because of it, so he stayed away on a long Pokemon journey. And I think that Ash will someday meet up with him in the future.

2. Ash's father could be the current Pokemon Master, and maybe Ash will have to battle his dad sometime and beat him in order to gain the title of Pokemon Master.

[Myuu]

I always assumed Ash's dad would have black hair as he does, since his mom's hair is light brown. Therefore, I stick with my old theory. Ash is the son of Goku. That's right. They have similar hair and they both eat a lot. They're both powerful in their own ways, too... ^.^" Heh.

[Nekusagi]

But even so, and even assuming that DiamondShipping is correct, why would she?

...Because she liked him? Honestly, I'm not suggesting she's a gold digger or anything, but if some guy with a lot of money asked me out, I'd go with him... and given the official Himeno art of Gio as a teenager, I really couldn't blame Delia... (off topic, I know, but I had to say it.)

[FabuVinny]

We aren't talking about going out...we are talking about Delia getting pregnant!

[Nekusagi]

Yes, I know, but the question a few posts ago was "Why would Delia let him get her pregnant?" Hopefully, Vinny (er, Jabun...) you know that a certain act is required for one to become pregnant... obviously, Gio and Delia would have to have participated in this act together in order for Diamondshipping to even happen, meaning that, unless it was rape (which I suppose is a possibility, although I prefer not to consider that possibility), they would have had to love each other at one point (or at least be really drunk.)

Actually, a better answer would be, "Why not?"

[Magus]

My thought is, if Ash's father were going to be a plot point, the writers would've probably done it already by now. Or at least brought up his existence a lot more than they have. At this point, the typical fans (the ones who arne't obsessive like us :lol:) have probably forgotten that we don't know who his dad is. It's not as if the writers are making any effort to remind us that we don't know who his dad is.

[PokemonTrainerLisa]

Yeah, that's true, Magus.

But, the dubbers still mentioned it on the 3rd movie audio commentary, and they said that their Japanese counterparts had told them we'd learn more about Ash's dad in the 5th season (even though that didn't happen).

So, that proves the writers were at least thinking about the storyline involving Ash's dad at one point.

Although, the question is, what's going on now?

And why haven't we found out anything yet?

[Magus]

It could be like the GS Ball: they planned to do something with the idea, but then dropped it without any further mention.

[FabuVinny]

Or it could be that they still plan to do it, but are waiting for a time that isn't completely random.

[The Doctor]

Or waiting for the final movie. :X

[peanutbuttermewtwo]

I think the pokemon movie franchise has kind of gotten into a swing much like doraemon movie fanchise (or even Disney, if you think about it...). They're just going to put one out every year, with a different local, pokemon and theme. The movies wil become less and less relevant.

[Magus]

Or it could be that they still plan to do it, but are waiting for a time that isn't completely random.
If that's the goal, wouldn't they need to do something in the interim to foreshadow it? The longer they go without even mentioning Ash's family situation, the more random it would be for his father to be revealed.

[FabuVinny]

Now is not the time to start foreshadowing, unless there happens to be something of importance around the south of Kanto. The time of his revelation would be significant, and I would expect it to be a part of the final saga. When that begins is when the foreshadowing would begin.

But do you really think the writers could do something as advanced as foreshadow? :rolleyes:

[Jo-Jo]

I think they could at least make a stab at it. They foreshadowed all the stuff with Mewtwo in the first movie. If anything, their problem is that they foreshadow plotlines but never get around to writing them. :p E.g. GS ball, Jessie's past in Hoenn, etc.

[The Doctor]

The writer's idea of foreshadowing is foreshadowing a Pokemon's evolution by randomly having them out of their ball all episode.

That formula would make for an entertaining reveal of Ash's dad. :p

[ImJessieTR]

I have some thoughts on this:

(not in any real order of likelihood)

-- Giovanni. The show does make vast efforts to keep these two away from each other. They both have a strong drive to succeed in competition and are both hopelessly naive (I mean, come on, if Gio had such a far-reaching team, his spies could have found out why J&J endlessly stalk some kid-- and in Mewtwo Returns it's obvious TR doesn't know because the elite miss Domino doesn't have the slightest clue who he is). Likelihood: 3 or 4 out of 5.

-- Samuel Oak. I agree with the opinion that his and Delia's relationship is current, not related to Ash's birth. Although technically possible, I just don't see Oak as a slut. Likelihood: 2 or 3 out of 5.

-- Jesse's father. I played with this in Jesse's Surprise (see Rocketshipping thread). I merged the Ralph the fisherman character from the games (the one who went on and on about family) with the poacher from P4Ever, who looks like an old Ash. However, I'm also willing to entertain the idea the Gio had them both, for surely he knew Miyamoto since she was an elite Rocket. Likelihood: 3 to 5 out of 5.

-- Spencer Hale. We see that they've known each other. Delia is very concerned about him when he ends up missing. And since Molly is a few years younger than Ash, he could be divorced from Delia and all the times Ash and Molly played together as kids was just visitation rights. Delia does strike me as the kind of woman who can have a theoretically friendly divorce. Likelihood: 2 to 4 out of 5.

-- Bill. More of the game Bill than the anime one, though. He lives near a great dating spot, he's done a lot of traveling across Johto and Kanto, and his desire to be one with pokemon by dressing up/becoming a pokemon mirrors Ash's experience of turning into a pikachu. I think Ash displays a desire to be away from humans sometimes. I mean, he rarely comes home long enough to eat before he leaves again to go play with pokemon. Clearly he has social issues. Likelihood: (game & anime mixed) 2-3 out of 5.

Pokemon. I doubt the Ho-oh story, because I'm willing to bet we've never seen Ho-oh in the anime, especially after reading the synopsis of the 8th movie, where Mew is capable of looking like anyone/thing. I think Mew has been guiding Ash since the beginning, appearing as the Ho-oh on the first episode. My evidence for Mew: 1) although psychic like Mewtwo, you never hear him speak so you don't know what he's thinking, 2) Delia, I think, has an affinity for psychic pokemon, 3) Mew can transform, 4) Latias seems AWFULLY interested in Ash, and 5) it might help explain why Ash keeps running into Legends all the time. Likelihood: hard to tell, anywhere from 1-5 out of 5.

[theKarn]

I have a weird question.... wtf is all this "shipping" stuff. Sorry if i'm being newbish.:dodgy:

[MewtwoMaster]

For theKarn, Shipping is members' beliefs of characters liking other characters(Ie. Ash and Misty is called Pokeshipping, Ash and May is Hoennshipping, and Jesse and James is Rocketshipping).

On topic, I think maybe it'd be Oak or Pokemon from ImJessieTR's choices. Since the Professor has been hanging out with Delia more and more often as the story goes on. And the fact that Latias kissed Ash and the end of Pokemon Heroes, it could be either one.

[Barb]

I have a weird question.... wtf is all this "shipping" stuff. Sorry if i'm being newbish.:dodgy:
This should answer your question (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Shipping).

[Magus]

I find the idea of Ash being half Pokémon (is that even possible?) to be way too freaky to actually happen. Plus, if Mew were his father, wouldn't Ash be psychic? And wouldn't a godly-powerful psychic like Mewtwo notice it?

[Barb]

It's possible, but I don't know how plausible it is. Although, you have to admit, Ash has had quite a few run-ins with legendary types and, thus, you can't really outright dismiss the idea of his being part Pokémon and this somehow relating to his being 'special' or 'the Chosen One.'

And we don't know that Ash isn't psychic. If I remember my Saffron City episodes, Sabrina started training her powers at a very young age. Maybe Ash does have latent psychic powers and doesn't realize it, or hasn't been trained to use them. Certainly psychic types like Lugia and Lapras have no problems communicating with him.

Mewtwo did notice this, and I believe this is why Ash was one of the trainers chosen to go to New Island in the first place.

[PokemonTrainerLisa]

-- Bill. More of the game Bill than the anime one, though. He lives near a great dating spot, he's done a lot of traveling across Johto and Kanto, and his desire to be one with pokemon by dressing up/becoming a pokemon mirrors Ash's experience of turning into a pikachu. I think Ash displays a desire to be away from humans sometimes. I mean, he rarely comes home long enough to eat before he leaves again to go play with pokemon. Clearly he has social issues. Likelihood: (game & anime mixed) 2-3 out of 5.

Wow!

Very interesting theory, ImJessieTR!!!

I never really thought Ash's father could be Bill....

But, anyway, that sounds interesting.

And I always loved the fact that Ash got turned into a Pikachu. I thought that was very unique.

So, I think you're right.

There's a chance that Bill could be his father.

[ImJessieTR]

Yeah, I came up with that one in one of my fics, Professor Oak and the Rainbow Wing (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2579540/1/). It seemed so weird that I put it in there (not explicitly, but with subtlety). In any case, my choice for Ash's dad (besides Gio) is the poacher from P4Ever. C'mon, the guy looks like an older Ash and he shares the same "oh my God my dad's evil" vibe that Gio would.

[PokemonTrainerLisa]

That's cool, ImJessieTR.

And that sounds like a good fanfic.

I might read it. ^_^

[theKarn]

Thanks for exlplaining the shipping stuff without to much of a flame.

On topic: How can a pokemon be Ash's Father!? If it was possible for pokemon and humans to have babies the whole pokemon universe would be halfbreed human/pokemon and as we can plainly see there aren't many people with tails or pokemon-like attrobutes, except maybe speed, so how is that even relavent? Tht would be like a human and an animal having a baby IRL... That's just the weirest thing i've ever heard.

Would be like "I choose you, DAD!" or "I choose you, BROTHER!"

Anyway I choose Lance as Ash's father :)

[Magus]

Well, at least some of the Legendaries can take human form. But even then, I can't imagine how they'd be genetically compatible with a human.

[FabuVinny]

The thing with Ho-oh is that it makes Ash the equivalent of Jesus. While I can see Ash leading the fight against evil, I seriously do not think he is Jesus.

[ImJessieTR]

Well, at least some of the Legendaries can take human form. But even then, I can't imagine how they'd be genetically compatible with a human.

Agreed. But if it had been Mew -- well, supposedly it has the ancestor genetics of all pokemon. It's a stretch but it could have DNA shared with humans and other creatures as well.

I find the idea of Ash being half Pokémon (is that even possible?) to be way too freaky to actually happen. Plus, if Mew were his father, wouldn't Ash be psychic? And wouldn't a godly-powerful psychic like Mewtwo notice it?

Well, Ash doesn't have to have any powers, even if Mew was the father. Perhaps it's a recessive trait. I mean, in X-Men there are non-powered offspring of mutants all the time.

[~The Master~]

I remember a few years back, when I still followed the series, when episode 107 (orange islands) Charizard Chills was released. When the episode was aired, the were rumours on the internet and playground, that the trainer (Tad) was Ash's father. I don't know whether they were true or not, but I believe it to be quite plausible.

[Blackjack Palazzo]

Tad, was he the one with the Poliwrath with the champion belt?

Wasn't he, like, seventeen or something?

[Charmander1428]

Maybe Ash's dad and grandfather are non existant?

He may live in...The Matrix.

[deja0entendu]

-Silver (manga, games) is in fact the son of Giovanni (to clear up page like 3 or something)
-Oak and Delia are not doing it, never did, and probably wont. So Oak is not Ash's dad
-Giovanni seems probable, but I don't think so either
-there was buzz about an old guy named Silver (Anime). It was when the episode came out in Japan
-I think though, it was some totally new character we don't know about, who was a trainer on the rise, but ended up a washed up nobody

party!

[Magus]

Yes, there is a Silver in one of the Specials. He's not an anime equivalent of Giovanni's son from the manga, though, because he looks to be older than Giovanni. And it's not that he's "washed up", exactly. He's just obsessed with having a battle with Moltres (IIRC, he saw Moltres as a boy when he first started his journey, like how Ash saw Ho-oh), and dedicated his life to that one goal. Cassidy and Butch tricked Silver into helping them catch Moltres, but he ended up sending them "blasting off again". Then he battles Moltres afterward and his Salamence is predictably dominated.

But none of that really has anything to do with Ash's father, unless we're putting Silver forth as a candidate. He does say that Richie reminds him of himself, and Richie is as we all know a clone of Ash. :lol:

[FabuVinny]

- Silver has not appeared in the anime besides a three second cameo in the opening of "The Legend of Thunder", and that canon is not the same canon. Besides which, Giovanni can have two sons. Silver's mother could even be... Delia!

- Oak and Delia are close. There is no canon evidence to say they are not doing it. But, as I have already said, it is likely that they came closer after Ash's dad left.

- I think anime Silver is an older version of Richie. *grins*

- Knowing the writers, unseen trainer is probably the most likely. *sigh*

[The Doctor]

Let me explain my belief thusly:

Ash has a half sister called Molly.

[Psi Yamaneko]

Ash's father is. . .

. . . . . . . . . . .Wait, Molly?

[Magus]

He's suggesting that Molly's dad (whose name I've forgotten) from the 3rd movie is also Ash's dad. It does at least work chronologically. He meets the minimum standard to be a candidate: he's old enough to be Ash's father. He and Delia are also confirmed to have been acquainted before Ash was born, which would obviously be a plus if he's Ash's father. :-p

[peanutbuttermewtwo]

Ash's father = washed up nobody. In the grand tradition of Pokemon, if the Dad aint comedic or omigoshfreakinawsome, he's a deadbeat...see Brock's father and Sabrina's father and *goes on*

Offtopic -- Ash/Misty is called gakishipping, isn't it?

ontopic -- yay one shot film characters! *pats Mii on the head*
http://www.geocities.com/soulofaitwo/miiai.html

[☆欠番☆]

Theory of the week: Hoenheim Elric. C'mon, it makes sense.

[FabuVinny]

Offtopic -- Ash/Misty is called gakishipping, isn't it?
That is a name for it. The most common is PokéShipping.

Interesting that the fathers of Ash, Misty, and Brock all went missing... And Flint only recently refound his love of Lola... And Brock's overactive hormones do seem to be genetic...

[Fuoorin]

Well, I was reading once of a Japanese tradition that goes like this: when a boy is born, his father takes care of him till the age of 10, when he is capable to handle a sword and learn(age 10, the same age when a boy/girl gets his first pokemon) and after this, the parent dissapears somewhere, in await of his child to make him proud and fulfill his destiny...(only that childs' mother can appear and reappear everytime he/she needs her)
So, by reading and telling you all this, I think, in my opinion, that Ashs' father will remain a mistery

[FabuVinny]

In await of his child to make him proud and fulfill his destiny? :rolleyes: Looks like we'll be seeing him at the end of the anime, then.

[Roses Ablaze]

Well, I was reading once of a Japanese tradition that goes like this: when a boy is born, his father takes care of him till the age of 10, when he is capable to handle a sword and learn(age 10, the same age when a boy/girl gets his first pokemon) and after this, the parent dissapears somewhere, in await of his child to make him proud and fulfill his destiny...(only that childs' mother can appear and reappear everytime he/she needs her)
So, by reading and telling you all this, I think, in my opinion, that Ashs' father will remain a mistery
Source? o.o

[Fuoorin]

Well *tries to remember the book*, if i'm not mistaken: James Clavell--Shogun

[Unregistered]

James Clavell's "Shogun"? Ooh, that's an authoritative source, you betcha! Not.

[FabuVinny]

It does fit the anime perfectly, though.

[Unregistered]

That it does. Too well. I don't remember seeing anything like that when I read "Shogun" long ago.

No, the show follows the grand tradition in animation where the child hero is missing a parent (usually the mother), is an orphan or soon becomes one. The parents don't usually play a role in the story, so why bother with them?

We'll never find out who Ash's father is.

[FabuVinny]

Ash's father also has a son called Travis.

[Unregistered]

You've lost me. Who is Travis and what does he have to do with Polemon?

[FabuVinny]

Travis is the son of the 4th Orange Island Gym Leader, Luana (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Luana).

[ImJessieTR]

*looks at pic* -- well, if so, then Ash's dad is just as bad as all the ships Delia has...

[Unregistered]

O-k-a-y...If Travis was begat by Ash's father, let's not forget that another mother in "Hypno's Naptime" way back in the Kanto season also mistook Ash for her son. Seems like Ash's father isn't too fussy about who he does it with.

[FabuVinny]

A while back, I made a criteria to at least remove some candidates:

1) He must be a trainer or have been a trainer - see Delia's comment in episode two.
2) Judging by what she says, it is most likely that he started his journey in Pallet Town.
3) He can't be any younger than 21. He needed to produce Ash ten years, nine months ago. (The "do the characters age?" debate need not affect this as he presumably goes at the same rate as Ash - unless there are exceptional circumstances, of course.)
4) The key exception is if Celebi is involved. But anyone young must show a link to Celebi to be the father.
5) He is most likely to be a human. There is no evidence that Pokémon and humans are compatible, especially as they can all only breed with a select group of Pokémon. With the exception of Ditto, of course. :rolleyes:

[Jo-Jo]

3) He can't be any younger than 21. He needed to produce Ash ten years, nine months ago.
...Do you mean 21? Because that would make him 11/12 when Ash was conceived.

[FabuVinny]

Yes, he is older than that, but he isn't any younger.

[Jo-Jo]

But if Ash's dad is currently 21, that would have made him 12 when Ash was born. Surely he'd have to be at least... I dunno, 27-ish now?

[ImJessieTR]

All he needs is puberty.

[Ket Makura]

*Shrugs* We don't know who Gary's father is either--just his grandfather (though I do sort of agree with Blackjack's Theory that Tyson is Gary's dad). I doubt that Ash is Oak's son, though. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Giovanni might have dozens of illegitimate little bratlings running around. Even though Blackjack has corrupted me towards DiamondShipping, I don't know how much I really believe it. I can't imagine Giovanni living in domestic bliss in Pallet Town, then moseying off to Viridian one day and taking his place as Evil Overlord.

[Unregistered]

Well, if Ash's father must be a trainer, then we can probably rule out Travis and the kid in "Hypno's Naptime" as being half-brothers to Ash. We know absolutely nothing about their fathers. Also, just because Luana is an Orange Island gym leader, that does not mean her husband/lover is a trainer. I'd say Travis's father was a hotelier. Not likely a gym leader would have the time or means to build a hotel so grand as the one she was running.

Um, 11 or 12 sounds awfully early for puberty for males. At best, it would just be beginning which is a long way from from being able to impregnate someone.

[ImJessieTR]

I didn't say he could be 11 or 12, as I agree that seems a little young. I was just saying he doesn't have to be "legal" yet.

[Unregistered]

Ash's father should be approximately the same age as his mother or older.

[Roses Ablaze]

Which is likely, but not necessary. To be realisitc, though, I usually think of the minimum fathering age to be 14 (so I'd say 24 at the youngest). I also tend to think of Delia as being 18 when Ash was born since that's what that one book says. I know that book isn't anywhere near canon, but I like some of the ideas it put forth.

[PokemonTrainerLisa]

Yeah.

It's weird that the book's not canon.

I mean, wasn't it written by one of the past writers of the anime?


I remember reading a translation of the book, and it seemed very interesting (I printed it out too).

It was on that one site that had to take down all of that stuff eventually, cause of Sho-Pro or something.

[Roses Ablaze]

Yeah, I miss Encyclopedia Pokemonia. I wonder if ITOMARU is still around...

I think the guy that wrote it got into some trouble or something for writing it (at least that's what I've heard).

[PokemonTrainerLisa]

Oh, I didn't know about that......

I feel sorry for the writer.

He was really good.

[Unregistered]

What book was that?

[FabuVinny]

To be realisitc, though, I usually think of the minimum fathering age to be 14 (so I'd say 24 at the youngest).
But how are you going to tell if a character is 21 or 24? The point I was trying to make is that he can't currently be a teenager or a child.

[Roses Ablaze]

True.

[infinite crisis]

i think he's dead

[FabuVinny]

Yeah, but that's boring. :p

So is anyone going to answer the Unregistered's question?

[Roses Ablaze]

Oh right. Sadly, I don't remember the name of the book, but it was written by one of the producers of the show and is only available in Japanese. Translations of some excerpts used to be available on a website called Encyclopedia Pokemonia run by a Japanese Pocket Monsters fan called ITOMARU, but that website has now been shut down, sadly.

[Unregistered]

Thank you FabuVinny for asking who would answer my question about the book. Not that I got an answer, but I thank you nonetheless.

Every Unregistered beginning with page 10 on this thread was me. I've shown up elsewhere too. Almost feel like registering.

[PokemonTrainerLisa]

Unregistered, I believe the translated name of the novel was called "Starting The Journey".

And I think the excerpt had a subtitle too, but I can't remember exactly what it was......


I need to find my printout of the novel.

I know it's around here somewhere, I just need to find it.

But, anyway, I'll let you know exactly what it's called when I find my printout.

[Unregistered]

Thank you PTL.

[PokemonTrainerLisa]

You're welcome. ^^

[peanutbuttermewtwo]

PTL, do you think you might scan it up or take questions or someott?

[PokemonTrainerLisa]

Well, I don't have a scanner, so I can't scan it unfortunately......


Although, I do have cam, and I could try and take some pics of it with that (I'm not sure how well that would turn out).


And peanutbuttermewtwo, what do you mean by take questions?



Oh, I just thought of something, instead of trying to take pics of the novel with my cam, I could just type out what was said on the novel.

I think I'll do that.

*goes to find her printout of the novel*

[peanutbuttermewtwo]

Hey again, PTL

I meant that perhaps you could start a topic, or use this one, and answer questions about the content of the novel, seeing as it seems to be absent online these days. But if you're willing to type it up, all the better!

[Unregistered]

Hey PTL!

Did you find your copy of the novel? It's great you're offering to type it up, but all I need is the title.

Thanks for your efforts.

[PokemonTrainerLisa]

Nope, I still haven't found it...... -_-

Although, there are a few places I still haven't checked yet.

So I'll keep looking. It should turn up sooner or later.


As soon as I find it Unregistered, I'll post the title on here for you. ^^

And for everyone else, I type up what was said on the novel.

[FabuVinny]

Today's conspiracy theory:

Professor Oak is Giovanni's father!

[PokemonTrainerLisa]

LOL, FabuVinny.

Hehe, that's a good one. XD

[Unregistered]

Which would make Gary Giovanni's son? No wonder he had a cool car and cheerleaders in Kanto

[Blackjack Palazzo]

I still hold to my theory that Gary's father is Tyson.

[Unregistered]

Still, it does make some sense that Prof. Oak is Giovanni's father. With all those pokemon at his lab, you'd think TR would try to steal them. However, except for those bumblers J&J&M, he hasn't had any trouble with TR.

[FabuVinny]

Besides the Butch and Cassidy housou...
Which would make Gary Giovanni's son?
Why do people think people in the Pokémon world can only have one child? Norman and Caroline did alright. Same with Mity's family and the two Eevee families. This could make them cousins, (with both having the same grandfather.)

[Roses Ablaze]

So, as far as the Japanese version goes, do we know for sure that Professor Orchid is Shigeru's grandfather on his father's side? He could very well be his mother's father, too.

[ImJessieTR]

Today's conspiracy theory:

Professor Oak is Giovanni's father!

shhh! you're ruining part of To Care for Him!

j/k

:loopy:

[PokemonTrainerLisa]

So far, I've only found the first page of what I had printed out (page 1 of 4). I believe the other 3 pages must still be somewhere in my room or something......


Anyway, here's what you've been waiting for all this time Unregistered, the title of the novel.

This is what it says at the top of the page:


POCKETMONSTERS ; The Animation


I think this part right here is the title though - Vol. 1 Tabidachi (The Departure) P24-30, 40-42

Written by Shudou Takeshi


Extracts from Chapter 1. Start on a journey with putting on my pajamas



And for everyone who wanted to see the translation, here's what it says on the first page (I'll post the rest of the translation, when/if I find it):



Translated by Itomaru


About Satoshi's father



"---I can't sleep" Satoshi said.
Hanako said with striking Satoshi's pillow. "Sure, I can understand your feeling. All the people of 10 years old and over are aiming to be a Pokemon trainer in this town. Your dad, your grandpa ---and yourself---." When she said about Satoshi's dad and grandpa, the pillow was like a punching bag.
"Dad and grandpa---"
A memory when Satoshi was five years old flashed across his mind.


It was the day when a PC was given to him for the first time. Hanako said with staring at a brand new PC. "Hey, my son. I must say to you---Your father and grandfather are great Pokemon trainers, aren't they?" Of course, Satoshi was believed so. "Hey mom, tell me! What is my dad like? What sort of a man is my grandpa?"
When little Satoshi asked Hanako, she always gave the same answer.
"Your dad and grandpa are sooo surreal trainers who surpass the hero Ohkido Masara--- possibly."
"Surreal?" It wasn't a familiar word for him.
"Surrealistic---super-realistic"
"They are superior men, you meant."
"It's something like that."
But the day when the PC was delivered, superior dad and grandpa have been transformed into different persons. This how it happened---Hanako bobbed her head to little Satoshi.
"Sorry, dear. I told you a falsehood." Hanako said to Satoshi with his mouth wide open.
"Falsehood---."

[Blackjack Palazzo]

Interesting. It seems that it's saying that he *doesn't* know his father. Or his grandfather, for that matter.

[PokemonTrainerLisa]

Yeah, that's what it looked like to me too.


And I hope I find those other pages soon, cause I've actually forgotten the rest of it.

[Blackjack Palazzo]

You wouldn't happen to have the original text, would you? A not-so-Babelfished translation would be groovy.

[PokemonTrainerLisa]

Yeah, that is what the original text said on the website actually, because I printed the whole thing out. I didn't use Babelfish or anything. Although, it kinda sounds like that for some reason.


I mean, on the site, there were two different columns on the page.

The one on the left side of the page, the entire left column is what the novel said in Japanese.

And the column on the right is the translated novel in English by Itomaru (it was already translated on the site).


Is that what you meant?

Or were you talking about something else?

[Blackjack Palazzo]

No, that's what I meant.

[Unregistered]

Thanks PTL! You've given me the information I need. Just out of curiosity, do you know the address of the website you got the translated text from?

[Roses Ablaze]

Well, the website is down now, so it doesn't really make a difference. But here are the remains of the website along with a farewell note: http://sekichiku.freehosting.net/top.htm

[Unregistered]

I was thinking if someone knew the address, it might be found in the internet archives at www.archive.org.

[Unregistered]

Having checked the internet archives using the address provided by Roses Ablaze, we might only need the approximate date the website in question existed.

[FabuVinny]

Encyclopedia-Pokemonica
(Online Since May 27, 2001 - Aug 12, 2003 )

[Unregistered]

If anyone wants to take the ball and run with it, please do. I don't have time right now to search the internet archives.

[Unregistered]

Ok, I couldn't leave it alone. The website PTL was talking about can be found at http://web.archive.org/web/20021102102319/sekichiku.freehosting.net/ep_top.htm. On the left side of the page, you'll find a link to the novel. Enjoy!

[Unregistered]

My mistake. The right side of the page.

[PokemonTrainerLisa]

Thanks PTL! You've given me the information I need.
You're welcome, Unregistered. ^^


And thank you for looking for that website in the archives.

Now I can print out the translation of the novel again (cause I couldn't find the rest of it).

[Unregistered]

It was nothing, PTL. Thank Roses Ablaze for giving me an address to begin searching with.

Too bad most of the novel(s) is untranslated in the website I cited. Is that the way you remember it? There are later copies in the archives, but I glanced at them and didn't see anything related to the novels. Maybe I missed something.

Fortunately, the website gives the ISBN codes for the novels, so it should be possible to find the actual Japanese versions, possibly on eBay. I doubt Amazon.com-Japan is still selling them.

Now, all we need is someone fluent in Japanese to hunt down a copy and provide a translation because, to be honest, the translation by Itomaru reads like it went through Babelfish.

[Unregistered]

Giovanni the rocket leader

[bell02+]

Ash's father is probably just some hobo on a cerulian street corner.

[the gadfly]

Geez, somebody dredged up this thread? On the other hand, it was kind of nice to see the posts I made before I registered. Yeah, I was the Unregistered posting in December, January and February.

[PokemonTrainerLisa]

Oh, cool!

So, that was you all that time! ^^


That's good to know. :-)

[the gadfly]

Guilty as charged. This is not the only thread I posted in many times as Unregistered. Guess I was a serial poster posting in anonymity.

EDIT: Since I registered, I've noticed the number of Unregistered postings have fallen almost to zero. I'd guess I made 90 percent or more of the Unregistered postings before the gadfly became an official member.

[charizard_tamer123]

it is possible for gio to have 2 sons but it is unlikely. if giovanni could have one then look at your rival from g/s/c.

[Ralli]

it is possible for gio to have 2 sons but it is unlikely. if giovanni could have one then look at your rival from g/s/c.

What the fuck. Someone stop this kid.

[Blackjack Palazzo]

it is possible for gio to have 2 sons but it is unlikely. if giovanni could have one then look at your rival from g/s/c.

1--why is it unlikely?
2--why was it worth reviving a topic from fucking JUNE to say that?

[blixableier]

I think his dad might be dead. Deliah once sayed "Your dad would be proud of you!". If Gio is his father, there would be some kind of recognisation at "Mewtwo returns" movie. Cause Ash seems to know his father (his mother told him, that his dad needed 3 days to Vertania).
If he would have left, Ash would at least have seen a picture of him. And as I sayed: Giovanni and Ash met each other at "Mewtwo returns". And even if Giovanni hadn't sayed anything about Ash beeing his son, Ash would.

[Blackjack Palazzo]

Where the heck is "Vertania"? Is it anywhere near Viridian?

And they didn't "meet" in Mewtwo Returns. They were quite a ways apart from each other and never saw each other clearly.

[blixableier]

oh sorry, sey, i meant viridian.

Oh yes, they met. After Ash, Mewtwo & the both pikachus destroyed the engine, which chased mewtwo.

[wheggem]

I don't know if you know, but do you know of Riley in the D/P games? The guy on Iron Island? If he ever went on the show, couldn't it be possble that he was Ash's father, or a relative of his? Just something I came up with myself

[Alzatia]

Don't think your the only one who's thought of that. >_> But, yeah, it's HIGHLEY unlikely...

[Blackjack Palazzo]

Riley's like 25. He would have had to become a father at like 15--or younger if you think Ash has aged. Possible, but unlikely.

[Habunake]

Zoey.

Ten characters.

[Floyd™]

Well, I think...
Here it goes.
his father will appear in the Arceus movie as a government spy infiltrating Team Rocket to intercept Arceus as a weapon for United Hojokansin (figure it out) against that powerful Orre.
While on his journey Ash bumps into him, they battle, Ash wins and jumps up and down saying, "You can't beat Ash Ketchum," His father reveals himself, and they go on a journey to catch Arceus, when it's finally caught, Ash's father will erase the memories of Ash, Brock, Hikari, etc., go up in his hellicopter, and fly away.
Sort of a bittersweet ending. And yes, [Insert Name Here] you can use this for your fanfic, just give me some credit.

[Alzatia]

Well, I think...
Here it goes.
his father will appear in the Arceus movie as a government spy infiltrating Team Rocket to intercept Arceus as a weapon for United Hojokansin (figure it out) against that powerful Orre.
While on his journey Ash bumps into him, they battle, Ash wins and jumps up and down saying, "You can't beat Ash Ketchum," His father reveals himself, and they go on a journey to catch Arceus, when it's finally caught, Ash's father will erase the memories of Ash, Brock, Hikari, etc., go up in his hellicopter, and fly away.
Sort of a bittersweet ending. And yes, [Insert Name Here] you can use this for your fanfic, just give me some credit.

You're kidding right?

Seriously...I don't get why people think Ash's father will have an important role in some point the stories, let alone the movies. If he was it would had been hinted by now somehow, like the Ho-Oh thing. >_> And don't come with the lame Ho-Oh is Ash's dad jokes..-_-'

[GSC Junkie]

You're kidding right?

Seriously...I don't get why people think Ash's father will have an important role in some point the stories, let alone the movies. If he was it would had been hinted by now somehow, like the Ho-Oh thing. >_> And don't come with the lame Ho-Oh is Ash's dad jokes..-_-'


I don't. I seirously think that Ash's dad is Ho-Oh.

[Alzatia]

I don't. I seirously think that Ash's dad is Ho-Oh.

That's your theory. Your aren't using it as a lame joke, so I don't see a problem with it. Even if it's one that I don't agree on. It's a still a theory with some rath valuble points.

[Floyd™]

You're kidding right?

Seriously...I don't get why people think Ash's father will have an important role in some point the stories, let alone the movies. If he was it would had been hinted by now somehow, like the Ho-Oh thing. >_> And don't come with the lame Ho-Oh is Ash's dad jokes..-_-'

That's your theory. Your aren't using it as a lame joke, so I don't see a problem with it. Even if it's one that I don't agree on. It's a still a theory with some rath valuble points.
You bash my sort of constructive idea, then say okay to something you blatently said you hated?

[Alzatia]

You bash my sort of constructive idea, then say okay to something you blatently said you hated?

There's a huge difference. One atleast has canon support while the other plainly doesn't.

[Baby Doll Gone Wrong]

I always thought Ash's father was the guy from the third Pokemon movie. I mean, he was Delia's "close" friend. I think Molly being brainwashed into thinking Delia is her mom was some sort of foreshadowing.

The guy even had the same haircut as Ash! Or maybe I'm delirious.

[GSC Junkie]

I always thought Ash's father was the guy from the third Pokemon movie. I mean, he was Delia's "close" friend. I think Molly being brainwashed into thinking Delia is her mom was some sort of foreshadowing.

The guy even had the same haircut as Ash! Or maybe I'm delirious.

Spencer Hale is another plausible theory for me. That means Ketchum is Delia's madien name, Lol.

...I aways thought he had long silver hair.

[Axletia]

Me too. So, if Spencer Hale was Ash's father, would that mean Ash has a chance of getting gray hair by the age of twenty ? It would make sense.