XD: which generation?

[MTC]

This affects more than just one article, so its probably better to post this here than on an article talk page.

So which generation should XD be classed as?
I personally would say that its Generation IV, as it contains at least 2 4th Gen Pokémon, I'd say that would make it 4th gen, whether or not you can catch a 4th Gen Pokémon.

If you vote on the poll, make a post to explain your opinion.

[Evil Figment]

If it contains Gen IV pokémon, then it belongs in the Gen IV category.

[Archaic]

I'd say Gen III myself. It's compatible with the Gen III games, not Gen IV. The Gen IV Pokémon in it could be interpreted as Gen IV previews, rather than placing the game in Gen IV itself.

[Alabaster.j.cat]

More than likely Gen III. The only thing would actually classify it as Gen IV is if it had a significant amount of Gen IV pokemon, say more than 50.

[Evil Figment]

I don't think the amount of Gen IV matters all that much on the one hand, on the other, the issue Archaic raised seems fairly relevant to me.

[Zhen Lin]

The interesting thing will be whether or not these Gen. IV Pokémon have Pokédex numbers by the release time, and even more interesting would be what those numbers are. Or not. What on earth would we be able to speculate about from the gaps in the Pokédex numbers?

This is the other interesting thing. Since obviously the Gen. IV Pokémon cannot be transferred to Gen. III, and since the Gen. IV trading protocol may not be finalised by the time they have to finalise XD code, then these Pokémon will be stuck in the XD game. I cannot reasonably forsee them allowing XD to ship with code for all the Gen. IV Pokémon and interacting with the games as well...

Another measure is the internal mechanics. This can be used to place FR/LG in Gen. III - if the battle engine is the same, as it should be in order to be compatible, then it would be Gen. III. Although it's entirely possible that XD will have two battle engines...

[Trainer-c]

I vote for Gen III I agree with Archaic on compatability being an indicator.
And while it does preview some Gen IV Pokémon, it has nothing else that classifies it as a Gen IV game. (New TM's, Types, Etc.)

[evkl]

GenIV. The Pokemon decide it all--unless it's NOT compatable with GenIV when GenIV is released, in which case it'll need to be reclassified.

[Zhen Lin]

Yes, but it seems a bit odd that they would allow XD to have the full Gen. IV Pokémon set before the release of the GBA games. I think, the scenario where there are only one or two that cannot be transferred off XD is most likely. However... if it does contain the data for the full set, well, we'll know a lot more about Gen. IV before the release of a proper Gen. IV game, won't we.

[The Doctor]

Pokemon Dash has Munchlax in it, i'd consider it to be in the bracket of Generation three.

Same for XD. To me a new generation starts when the main games are launched with the new land, Pokemon etc. All XD seems to feature are cameos in the same manner that Chikorita, Cyndaquil and Totodile appeared in Puzzle League.

Gen IV would start with D/P, anything after that, anything that interacts with that world and those Pokemon as a full set is Gen IV. But XD interacts with Gen III and focuses on Gen III for that matter.

You wouldn't call Colosseum Gen II just because it features Johto Pokemon would you?

[FireEmblemSP]

I'll decide after the game's released. It's odd that Nintendo would release XD at all, because every Pokemon is obtainable as of Emerald, so I'm sure XD has a purpose to serve. Maybe capturing Munchlax and sending it over would automatically evolve it into Snorlax...

[Zeta]

I don't think we can decide until the game is released.

While we know that GenIV Pokemon make cutesy little cameo appearences in it, is there any evidence that these Pokemon are nothing more than NPCs? Because, if for instance Togepi had appeared in the background of a Pokemon Center in Pokemon Yellow, we wouldn't be including Yellow in Gen II, would we? That'd just be silly.

I think that even if, say - Bonsly and Munchlax ARE obtainable in it, but they're the only DP Pokemon who ARE, and you can only stick them on a cartridge once they evolve - that's still just GenIII with some extra stuff crammed in. On the other hand if it has data for all the DP Pokemon and it's somehow compatible with DP - then that's GenIV . . .

[MTC]

You wouldn't call Colosseum Gen II just because it features Johto Pokemon would you?No, Colosseum is Gen III because it features at least one Pokémon from Gen III, and none from Gen IV or later, I count XD as Gen IV because it features Pokémon from Gen IV and (unless something very strange happens) none from Gen V or later.

[Zeta]

I count XD as Gen IV because it features Pokémon from Gen IV and (unless something very strange happens) none from Gen V or later.

Even if it "features" Gen IV Pokemon - how can you classify it as Gen IV if:

* Bonsly and Munchlax only appear as background characters who can't join your party and don't do anything. That doesn't sound like "feauturing" anything to me.

* The game is built to interact only with GenIII games?

I mean, we don't know these things for sure - but if the only "features" of GenIV are two Pokemon in the background who do nothing, then you might as well count everything in Advanced Generation part of the Diamond/Pearl series after Munclax appears . . . Or everything in the Kanto season as part of Johto after the first episode because the very first episoded featured a GSC Pokemon . . .

[evkl]

Capturable is a good benchmark.

Because that means the Poke needs data space on the game, more than just random text bubbles.

[The Doctor]

I'll decide after the game's released. It's odd that Nintendo would release XD at all, because every Pokemon is obtainable as of Emerald, so I'm sure XD has a purpose to serve. Maybe capturing Munchlax and sending it over would automatically evolve it into Snorlax...

This one ALWAYS just leaves me with a general feeling of 'O_O'.

Why can't people understand that a game's purpose is to play it and enjoy the story and gameplay from it?

It doesn't have to be giving us new Pokemon to have a 'purpose', it has a story. If staff members (Shigsy, Ex-Square-Enix peeps) are anything to go by, a damn good one.

This 'purpose' argument doesn't hold up at all.

[Zeta]

Why can't people understand that a game's purpose is to play it and enjoy the story and gameplay from it?

Um, I don't think they mean that new Pokemon are required for a game to have purpose - but rather that the game itself should have some new aspect that means that it was worth producing - besides making more money. Much like the Megaman series, the Pokemon series is guilty of releasing many versions of essentially the same game for more revenue. Because of this, games can be viewed as having "no purpose" if they're essentially the same game with a slighty tweak. Why write two books that are only unique in having different names for the main characters, for instance - if JK Rowling wrote a book called "Larry Morgan and the Sorcerer's Stone" that was the first Harry Potter book in every way except a few small details - the book could be thought of as "pointless" - one can gain enjoyment from it, but it's superfluous.

XD may be guilty of this. There's nothing so far to suggest it will be more than Pokemon Colosseum with a new plot. If it adds some significant new features or gameplay tweaks that make it "better" or at least unsuperfluous from PokeCol, then it can be said to have a purpose.

Comprende?

[FabuVinny]

Munchlax appears in a battle and a trainer asks you to find a Bonsly. That is all we know at the moment. That definately isn't enough to put it in Gen IV, but until the game is released, we won't know which Generation it is in.

[Zhen Lin]

Usohachi has been spotted in a screenshot:

http://f42.aaa.livedoor.jp/~imawaka/imgboardphp/src/1119220362818.jpg

(Copy/paste URL may be necessary)

[FabuVinny]

That link doesn't work, but serebii.net has it:

http://www.serebii.net/xd/4thgen.shtml

XD may be guilty of this. There's nothing so far to suggest it will be more than Pokemon Colosseum with a new plot. If it adds some significant new features or gameplay tweaks that make it "better" or at least unsuperfluous from PokeCol, then it can be said to have a purpose.
We've been told that it will be a larger RPG - more to the size of Ruby and Sapphire than Colosseum.

[Unown Lord]

The screenshot to which Zhen Lin linked is brand new, showing Bonsly in battle alongside Butterfree. Suspiciously, the screenshot looks very similar to this (http://media.nintendo.com/mediaFiles/e92c82f7-37af-48d8-a1ab-cd4ccc284fa5.jpg). The differences lie in the color of the beam used by Butterfree, the replacement of Jolteon by Bonsly and Butterfree's level. Editing Butterfree's stats should be easy enough; Bonsly looks out of place and the entire background appears to have gone through changes in color. This certainly looks like a modified version of the existent screenshot, meant to create the impression that Bonsly can be used in battle.

Of course, this does not at all mean that Munchlax and Bonsly will not be able to be used in battle. This is clearly to remain a mystery for the time being, but it is at least reasonable to speculate that Manene will be revealed to be in the game in next month's CoroCoro.

For the record, whether or not these Pokemon can be used in battle will have no influence on my view of the game as part of Generation III. Most of the reasons have been mentioned by Archaic and Zhen Lin--any decent player of the games should be able to judge them from more aspects than merely the Pokemon which are featured. This is the first time for an RPG game to contain Pokemon of an upcoming generation, but it should not be such a surprise once you consider that the Gamecube games are not confined by the engine of the GBA games.

The interesting thing will be whether or not these Gen. IV Pokémon have Pokédex numbers by the release time, and even more interesting would be what those numbers are. Or not. What on earth would we be able to speculate about from the gaps in the Pokédex numbers?
If they can indeed be used in battle, the problem of their Pokedex numbers is easily solved by the fact that the Pokedex system is absent in the Gamecube games.

[bduddy]

I believe that Generation IV Pokemon=Generation IV game. I'm sort of new here, so... what did you classify FR/LG as? If it's Generation I, then by those guidelines, this game should certainly be III. Otherwise, this should, I think, be IV.

(Now that I'm rereading that, I don't think it makes a lot of sense... oh well, it's still my opinion.)

[stupidsite]

Don't get sidelined by sneak peeks at new pokemon.

IMHO XD is III Generation and not IV.

IV Generation will be entirely based on Nintendo DS/Revolution hardware. The only upgrade path that has been announced is by uploading your pokemon from a GB Cartridge to a DS Cartridge via the DS Handheld.

DS Cannot connect to GB or GC either via cable or wireless.

So far I've only heard reports that you see/temporarily own the two new pokemon. I've heard no reports that you can keep them long-term, nevermind trade them to a GB Cart.

Besides, trading to a GB Cart will no doubt involve some sort of upgrade of the Cart in a similar fashion to the berry update for Ruby/Sapphire.

Personally I can't see Nintendo going to all that trouble for two pokemon.

[The Doctor]

My gravedigging senses are tingling...

I'm sure this matter has already been settled. It's obviously a Gen III game. Gen IV really doesn't officially start until Pokemon Ranger kicks off - that's certainly a very, very smart place to pin down the beginning of the fourth Generation.

[evkl]

No necromancy, please. And I'm confident in my catchables benchmark for the deciding factor in generation-based games.

[Argy]

Who the hell voted in this and tricked me into doing it before I saw how old the thread was?! >:O